Other Indicators?

Discussion:

Other Indicators?

(too old to reply)

Robot Man

2012-11-13 15:59:20 UTC

Other than a PSA, are there any other indicators that can be
relied on? Anything that one can do/see/feel/? ---that can be
an indication of a reaccurance?

Does the PSA give an area, type of cancer, anything like that?
Is the PSA just for the area concerned with the prostate, or
will it give a response to cancer anywhere in the body?

I don't know all the questions, never mind the answers.

I have cancer of the throat/tongue and in August 2006 completed
radiation and chemo, ---so far, so good. In November of 2011, I
also had a complete removal of my prostate via the De Vinchi,
robot assisted procedure. It's been a year now with no
detection.

I get a PSA every 4 months now, but I wish there was something
that "I" could do/see/feel, instead of going through this
Medical Russian Roulette.

Or are we all doomed to spin the cylinder?

I haven't approached my Oncologist with any of this. I just
happen to be here at the computer reading some thyroid
newsgroups. (I have a thyroid that quit.---Levothyroxine for
life.) and I thought I'd bring it up with you folks.

Thanks ahead.

Robot Man

BruceS

2012-11-13 19:14:49 UTC

Permalink

Post by Robot Man
Other than a PSA, are there any other indicators that can be
relied on? Anything that one can do/see/feel/? ---that can be
an indication of a reaccurance?
Does the PSA give an area, type of cancer, anything like that?
Is the PSA just for the area concerned with the prostate, or
will it give a response to cancer anywhere in the body?
I don't know all the questions, never mind the answers.
I have cancer of the throat/tongue and in August 2006 completed
radiation and chemo, ---so far, so good. In November of 2011, I
also had a complete removal of my prostate via the De Vinchi,
robot assisted procedure. It's been a year now with no
detection.
I get a PSA every 4 months now, but I wish there was something
that "I" could do/see/feel, instead of going through this
Medical Russian Roulette.
Or are we all doomed to spin the cylinder?
I haven't approached my Oncologist with any of this. I just
happen to be here at the computer reading some thyroid
newsgroups. (I have a thyroid that quit.---Levothyroxine for
life.) and I thought I'd bring it up with you folks.
Thanks ahead.
Robot Man

You should probably talk to your onc about this. Information on the
'Net is from unqualified sources (myself included) and subject to
error. With that said, I believe PSA is only for prostate cancer. I
don't know why you would have one taken so often, given that you have oral
cancer. For prostate cancer, PSA is the gold standard test. There's also
the "digital" exam of the prostate, but my gp told me that never gets it
early enough to do any good---by the time the doctor can feel an
abnormality, it's too late. I had colon cancer, for which there's also a
blood test, called (IIRC) CEA. Unfortunately, that's not a very reliable
test, and my score was well within the "safe" range immediately before the
surgery to remove my large tumor. Some cancers produce symptoms when
they're still treatable, others don't.

I'm afraid that you may well find alt.support.cancer pretty inactive. For
a while, we had a steady group of members, but I haven't seen much of
anything here for a while. Our resident doctor (oncological radiology?)
hasn't been here in ages. Many "regulars", including patients,
caregivers, and other interested parties, seem to have given up in the
face of an overwhelming volume of kooks and spammers. I wish you the best
in your treatment.

gordo

2012-11-13 19:47:47 UTC

Permalink

Post by BruceS

You should probably talk to your onc about this. Information on the
'Net is from unqualified sources (myself included) and subject to
error. With that said, I believe PSA is only for prostate cancer. I
don't know why you would have one taken so often, given that you have oral
cancer. For prostate cancer, PSA is the gold standard test. There's also
the "digital" exam of the prostate, but my gp told me that never gets it
early enough to do any good---by the time the doctor can feel an
abnormality, it's too late. I had colon cancer, for which there's also a
blood test, called (IIRC) CEA. Unfortunately, that's not a very reliable
test, and my score was well within the "safe" range immediately before the
surgery to remove my large tumor. Some cancers produce symptoms when
they're still treatable, others don't.
I'm afraid that you may well find alt.support.cancer pretty inactive. For
a while, we had a steady group of members, but I haven't seen much of
anything here for a while. Our resident doctor (oncological radiology?)
hasn't been here in ages. Many "regulars", including patients,
caregivers, and other interested parties, seem to have given up in the
face of an overwhelming volume of kooks and spammers. I wish you the best
in your treatment.

A few of us are still lurking around.

BruceS

2012-11-13 20:45:28 UTC

Permalink

Post by gordo

Post by BruceS

You should probably talk to your onc about this. Information on the
'Net is from unqualified sources (myself included) and subject to
error. With that said, I believe PSA is only for prostate cancer. I
don't know why you would have one taken so often, given that you have oral
cancer. For prostate cancer, PSA is the gold standard test. There's also
the "digital" exam of the prostate, but my gp told me that never gets it
early enough to do any good---by the time the doctor can feel an
abnormality, it's too late. I had colon cancer, for which there's also a
blood test, called (IIRC) CEA. Unfortunately, that's not a very reliable
test, and my score was well within the "safe" range immediately before the
surgery to remove my large tumor. Some cancers produce symptoms when
they're still treatable, others don't.
I'm afraid that you may well find alt.support.cancer pretty inactive. For
a while, we had a steady group of members, but I haven't seen much of
anything here for a while. Our resident doctor (oncological radiology?)
hasn't been here in ages. Many "regulars", including patients,
caregivers, and other interested parties, seem to have given up in the
face of an overwhelming volume of kooks and spammers. I wish you the best
in your treatment.

A few of us are still lurking around.

That's good to hear. FTR, I used to post here as CSM, a nym I created to
avoid letting everyone I knew online know about my cancer. I didn't want
the awkward sympathy people tend to give cancer patients. Now that I'm
cancer free, I'm more open about it. Do you have any idea who else (aside
from Rusty) is still reading asc?

gordo

2012-11-13 20:59:09 UTC

You should probably talk to your onc about this. Information on the
'Net is from unqualified sources (myself included) and subject to
error. With that said, I believe PSA is only for prostate cancer. I
don't know why you would have one taken so often, given that you have oral
cancer. For prostate cancer, PSA is the gold standard test. There's also
the "digital" exam of the prostate, but my gp told me that never gets it
early enough to do any good---by the time the doctor can feel an
abnormality, it's too late. I had colon cancer, for which there's also a
blood test, called (IIRC) CEA. Unfortunately, that's not a very reliable
test, and my score was well within the "safe" range immediately before the
surgery to remove my large tumor. Some cancers produce symptoms when
they're still treatable, others don't.
I'm afraid that you may well find alt.support.cancer pretty inactive. For
a while, we had a steady group of members, but I haven't seen much of
anything here for a while. Our resident doctor (oncological radiology?)
hasn't been here in ages. Many "regulars", including patients,
caregivers, and other interested parties, seem to have given up in the
face of an overwhelming volume of kooks and spammers. I wish you the best
in your treatment.

A few of us are still lurking around.

No there was a roll call a few years ago.There is also the regular
news posted here.

Robot Man

2012-11-14 02:23:47 UTC

Permalink

In article <***@hotmail.com>
BruceS <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
|
| On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:59:20 -0500, Robot Man wrote:
|
| >
| > Other than a PSA, are there any other indicators that can be
| > relied on? Anything that one can do/see/feel/? ---that can be
| > an indication of a reaccurance?
| >
| > Does the PSA give an area, type of cancer, anything like that?
| > Is the PSA just for the area concerned with the prostate, or
| > will it give a response to cancer anywhere in the body?
| >
| > I don't know all the questions, never mind the answers.
| >
| > I have cancer of the throat/tongue and in August 2006 completed
| > radiation and chemo, ---so far, so good. In November of 2011, I
| > also had a complete removal of my prostate via the De Vinchi,
| > robot assisted procedure. It's been a year now with no
| > detection.
| >
| > I get a PSA every 4 months now, but I wish there was something
| > that "I" could do/see/feel, instead of going through this
| > Medical Russian Roulette.
| >
| > Or are we all doomed to spin the cylinder?
| >
| > I haven't approached my Oncologist with any of this. I just
| > happen to be here at the computer reading some thyroid
| > newsgroups. (I have a thyroid that quit.---Levothyroxine for
| > life.) and I thought I'd bring it up with you folks.
| >
| > Thanks ahead.
| >
| > Robot Man
|
| You should probably talk to your onc about this. Information on the
| 'Net is from unqualified sources (myself included) and subject to
| error. With that said, I believe PSA is only for prostate cancer. I
| don't know why you would have one taken so often, given that you have oral
| cancer. For prostate cancer, PSA is the gold standard test. There's also
| the "digital" exam of the prostate, but my gp told me that never gets it
| early enough to do any good---by the time the doctor can feel an
| abnormality, it's too late. I had colon cancer, for which there's also a
| blood test, called (IIRC) CEA. Unfortunately, that's not a very reliable
| test, and my score was well within the "safe" range immediately before the
| surgery to remove my large tumor. Some cancers produce symptoms when
| they're still treatable, others don't.
|
| I'm afraid that you may well find alt.support.cancer pretty inactive. For
| a while, we had a steady group of members, but I haven't seen much of
| anything here for a while. Our resident doctor (oncological radiology?)
| hasn't been here in ages. Many "regulars", including patients,
| caregivers, and other interested parties, seem to have given up in the
| face of an overwhelming volume of kooks and spammers. I wish you the best
| in your treatment.

Thank you very much Bruce. Yes, I do have cancer of the
throat/tongue, but I also had cancer of the prostate and it was
completely removed. Now I go in every 4 months with a PSA and
as I mentioned, it's like a medical form of Russian Roulette and
I was wondering if there is anything I can do for myself.

Thanks again Bruce. I'll shop around at the different
newsgroups to see what I can learn. I don't see my oncologist
for 4 months now, so I'll get to him then.

Take care...

Robot Man
El Centro, CA

BruceS

2012-11-14 15:18:08 UTC

Permalink

Post by Robot Man
|
|
| >
| > Other than a PSA, are there any other indicators that can be
| > relied on? Anything that one can do/see/feel/? ---that can be
| > an indication of a reaccurance?
| >
| > Does the PSA give an area, type of cancer, anything like that?
| > Is the PSA just for the area concerned with the prostate, or
| > will it give a response to cancer anywhere in the body?
| >
| > I don't know all the questions, never mind the answers.
| >
| > I have cancer of the throat/tongue and in August 2006 completed
| > radiation and chemo, ---so far, so good. In November of 2011, I
| > also had a complete removal of my prostate via the De Vinchi,
| > robot assisted procedure. It's been a year now with no
| > detection.
| >
| > I get a PSA every 4 months now, but I wish there was something
| > that "I" could do/see/feel, instead of going through this
| > Medical Russian Roulette.
| >
| > Or are we all doomed to spin the cylinder?
| >
| > I haven't approached my Oncologist with any of this. I just
| > happen to be here at the computer reading some thyroid
| > newsgroups. (I have a thyroid that quit.---Levothyroxine for
| > life.) and I thought I'd bring it up with you folks.
| >
| > Thanks ahead.
| >
| > Robot Man
|
| You should probably talk to your onc about this. Information on the
| 'Net is from unqualified sources (myself included) and subject to
| error. With that said, I believe PSA is only for prostate cancer. I
| don't know why you would have one taken so often, given that you have oral
| cancer. For prostate cancer, PSA is the gold standard test. There's also
| the "digital" exam of the prostate, but my gp told me that never gets it
| early enough to do any good---by the time the doctor can feel an
| abnormality, it's too late. I had colon cancer, for which there's also a
| blood test, called (IIRC) CEA. Unfortunately, that's not a very reliable
| test, and my score was well within the "safe" range immediately before the
| surgery to remove my large tumor. Some cancers produce symptoms when
| they're still treatable, others don't.
|
| I'm afraid that you may well find alt.support.cancer pretty inactive. For
| a while, we had a steady group of members, but I haven't seen much of
| anything here for a while. Our resident doctor (oncological radiology?)
| hasn't been here in ages. Many "regulars", including patients,
| caregivers, and other interested parties, seem to have given up in the
| face of an overwhelming volume of kooks and spammers. I wish you the best
| in your treatment.
Thank you very much Bruce. Yes, I do have cancer of the
throat/tongue, but I also had cancer of the prostate and it was
completely removed. Now I go in every 4 months with a PSA and
as I mentioned, it's like a medical form of Russian Roulette and
I was wondering if there is anything I can do for myself.

That makes sense then. They're monitoring your PSA to see if the prostate
cancer recurs. My onc kept checking CEA, even though it was "good" when
it should have been highest. I have my PSA checked annually, since my
father had prostate cancer. Two different cancers? That's pretty rough.
I recall a poster here in asc who had tongue cancer, but can't recall her
name. She had a good bit of her tongue removed, but still managed to
perform on stage, having worked back up to speech.

Post by Robot Man
Thanks again Bruce. I'll shop around at the different newsgroups to see
what I can learn. I don't see my oncologist for 4 months now, so I'll
get to him then.
Take care...
Robot Man
El Centro, CA

Good luck, and please feel free to post here with any progress, news, etc.
At one point, I found a forum site for cancer patients that seemed pretty
good, but I don't remember what it was. I posted the URL here, but that
would have been years ago, so probably not worth going through posts to
find it.

There are two kinds of newsgroups: unmoderated, which are subject to
kooks, trolls, and spammers, and moderated, which are subject to bad
moderators.

Steve Kramer

2012-11-16 02:39:24 UTC

Permalink

Hi, Robot. Welcome to the newsgroup.

Yes, I'm afraid that you are going to have to go through the PSA testing for
the rest of your life; or until you get so old that you just don't care
anymore. Generally speaking, most doctors go to semiannual tests after on
or two years of clean reports. Then in a year or two, annual reports.
After that, it's pretty much annual forever.

The good part is that the trepidation that you feel now slowly dissipates.
It took me six years after my last change in treatment, but then I have
Stage 3, terminal cancer. I imagine for someone in your position, you'll
start feeling better sooner, but it really differs between men.

PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
Last PSA <0.10 Next draw FEB 2013 @ 58
Illegitimati non carborundum

"Robot Man" wrote in message news:***@slug.slugish.net...

Other than a PSA, are there any other indicators that can be
relied on? Anything that one can do/see/feel/? ---that can be
an indication of a reaccurance?

Does the PSA give an area, type of cancer, anything like that?
Is the PSA just for the area concerned with the prostate, or
will it give a response to cancer anywhere in the body?

I don't know all the questions, never mind the answers.

I have cancer of the throat/tongue and in August 2006 completed
radiation and chemo, ---so far, so good. In November of 2011, I
also had a complete removal of my prostate via the De Vinchi,
robot assisted procedure. It's been a year now with no
detection.

I get a PSA every 4 months now, but I wish there was something
that "I" could do/see/feel, instead of going through this
Medical Russian Roulette.

Or are we all doomed to spin the cylinder?

I haven't approached my Oncologist with any of this. I just
happen to be here at the computer reading some thyroid
newsgroups. (I have a thyroid that quit.---Levothyroxine for
life.) and I thought I'd bring it up with you folks.

Thanks ahead.

Robot Man

BruceS

2012-11-16 14:20:55 UTC

Permalink

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:39:24 -0500, Steve Kramer wrote:

<snip>

Post by Steve Kramer
It took me six years after my last change in treatment, but then I have
Stage 3, terminal cancer. I imagine for someone in your position,
you'll start feeling better sooner, but it really differs between men.

<snip>

From what I understand, stage 3 is still treatable. It's stage 4 when
it's spread to other organs. I had stage 3 colon cancer, but am now
"cancer free" after surgery and chemo. Are you sure you're not
essentially cancer free, and just monitoring for recurrence? Does
prostate cancer treatment really differ that much?

Steve Kramer

2012-11-17 00:16:53 UTC

Permalink

You are correct. Stage 3, or in my case Stage T3cN0M0, is theoretically
curable until it isn't. Mine is Stage 3 because it entered the seminal
vesicles. Still, we hoped it was cured. Then when it wasn't we tried
radiation. When that didn't work we knew it was systemic.

PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
Last PSA <0.10 Next draw FEB 2013 @ 58
Illegitimati non carborundum

"BruceS" wrote in message news:***@hotmail.com...

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:39:24 -0500, Steve Kramer wrote:

<snip>

BruceS

2012-11-17 00:24:23 UTC

Permalink

Post by Steve Kramer
You are correct. Stage 3, or in my case Stage T3cN0M0, is theoretically
curable until it isn't. Mine is Stage 3 because it entered the seminal
vesicles. Still, we hoped it was cured. Then when it wasn't we tried
radiation. When that didn't work we knew it was systemic.

I hope the story of prostate cancer being very slow-growing is true then.
I know that in the case of colon cancer, the younger the patient is, the
faster it grows. I hope that isn't also true for prostate cancer.

Steve Kramer

2012-11-17 21:53:28 UTC

Permalink

It is true! Unfortunately.

The good new is, as you can see by my signature below, my PSAD has gotten
longer with each treatment; every 2¼ months after surgery; every 6 3/4
months after raditation; every 17 months after Lupron; and they haven't
found the cancer in 6½ years since adding Casodex. When it comes back, I
expect a very long PSAD (though I have no scientific data to base that on).

PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
Last PSA <0.10 Next draw FEB 2013 @ 58
Illegitimati non carborundum

Steve Kramer

2012-11-16 02:46:01 UTC

Permalink

I am so sorry. After reading the next response, I realized I didn't read
your questions thoroughly.

There are no other indicators for post-operative prostate cancer as good as
PSA.

PSA is only for prostates. Indeed, it stands for prostate specific
androgen.

PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
Last PSA <0.10 Next draw FEB 2013 @ 58
Illegitimati non carborundum

"Robot Man" wrote in message news:***@slug.slugish.net...

Other than a PSA, are there any other indicators that can be
relied on? Anything that one can do/see/feel/? ---that can be
an indication of a reaccurance?

Does the PSA give an area, type of cancer, anything like that?
Is the PSA just for the area concerned with the prostate, or
will it give a response to cancer anywhere in the body?

I don't know all the questions, never mind the answers.

I have cancer of the throat/tongue and in August 2006 completed
radiation and chemo, ---so far, so good. In November of 2011, I
also had a complete removal of my prostate via the De Vinchi,
robot assisted procedure. It's been a year now with no
detection.

I get a PSA every 4 months now, but I wish there was something
that "I" could do/see/feel, instead of going through this
Medical Russian Roulette.

Or are we all doomed to spin the cylinder?

I haven't approached my Oncologist with any of this. I just
happen to be here at the computer reading some thyroid
newsgroups. (I have a thyroid that quit.---Levothyroxine for
life.) and I thought I'd bring it up with you folks.

Thanks ahead.

Robot Man

2012-11-20 12:31:16 UTC

Permalink

Prostate specific antigen

Post by Steve Kramer
I am so sorry. After reading the next response, I realized I didn't read
your questions thoroughly.
There are no other indicators for post-operative prostate cancer as good
as PSA.
PSA is only for prostates. Indeed, it stands for prostate specific
androgen.
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Illegitimati non carborundum
Other than a PSA, are there any other indicators that can be
relied on? Anything that one can do/see/feel/? ---that can be
an indication of a reaccurance?
Does the PSA give an area, type of cancer, anything like that?
Is the PSA just for the area concerned with the prostate, or
will it give a response to cancer anywhere in the body?
I don't know all the questions, never mind the answers.
I have cancer of the throat/tongue and in August 2006 completed
radiation and chemo, ---so far, so good. In November of 2011, I
also had a complete removal of my prostate via the De Vinchi,
robot assisted procedure. It's been a year now with no
detection.
I get a PSA every 4 months now, but I wish there was something
that "I" could do/see/feel, instead of going through this
Medical Russian Roulette.
Or are we all doomed to spin the cylinder?
I haven't approached my Oncologist with any of this. I just
happen to be here at the computer reading some thyroid
newsgroups. (I have a thyroid that quit.---Levothyroxine for
life.) and I thought I'd bring it up with you folks.
Thanks ahead.
Robot Man

Steve Kramer

2012-11-22 00:50:54 UTC

Permalink

You are absolutely right!!

Thanks for the correction.

PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
Last PSA <0.10 Next draw FEB 2013 @ 58
Illegitimati non carborundum

"N" wrote in message news:***@bt.com...

Prostate specific antigen