Iron Indicates Cancer

[ironjustice]

Myeloperoxidase and free iron levels: potential biomarkers for early
detection and prognosis of ovarian cancer.
Cancer Biomark. 2011-2012;10(6):267-75.
Fletcher NM, Jiang Z, Ali-Fehmi R, Levin NK, Belotte J, Tainsky MA,
Diamond MP, Abu-Soud HM, Saed GM.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, The C.S. Mott Center for
Human Growth and Development, Wayne State University School of
Medicine, Detroit, MI 48201, USA.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: The study sought to identify whether a relationship exists
between serum myeloperoxidase (MPO) and free iron with stages of
ovarian cancer.

METHODS: Serum and tissue samples were collected from women with
stages I through IV ovarian cancer, benign gynecologic conditions,
inflammation, and healthy controls. Myeloperoxidase ELISA and VITROS
Fe Slide assays were used to measure serum and tissue MPO and free
iron levels, respectively. Data were analyzed with a one-way ANOVA
with post-hoc comparisons (p < 0.05 considered significant).

RESULTS: There was a significant increase in the level of free iron in
serum and tissues obtained from stages II-IV as compared to early-
stage (stage I) ovarian cancer. There was an overlap between early-
stage and inflammation serum MPO levels, however serum free iron
levels were significantly higher in early-stage. There was no
significant change in serum free iron levels between non-cancer
groups. In contrast, there was a significant increase in serum free
iron levels in early-stage as compared to non-cancer groups.

CONCLUSIONS: Collectively, these findings clearly indicate a role for
the combination of serum MPO and free iron as biomarkers for early
detection and prognosis of ovarian cancer.

PMID:22820082

doi: 10.3233/CBM-2012-0255.

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/634q5a


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[BruceS]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:57:58 -0800, ironjustice wrote:

<snip Rusty's usual spam>

Nothing left.

[carole]

Post by BruceS
<snip Rusty's usual spam>
Nothing left.

except this.


The Contribution of Cytotoxic Chemotherapy
to 5-year Survival in Adult Malignancies
CONCLUSION:
As the 5-year relative survival rate for cancer in Australia is now
over 60%, it is clear that cytotoxic chemotherapy only makes a minor
contribution to cancer survival. To justify the continued funding and
availability of drugs used in cytotoxic chemotherapy, a rigorous
evaluation of the cost-effectiveness and impact on quality of life is
urgently required.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15630849
http://germannewmedicine.ca/documents/Chemo%20Australia%20Study.pdf 
RESULTS:
The overall contribution of curative and adjuvant cytotoxic
chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adults was estimated to be 2.3% in
Australia and 2.1% in the USA.


--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

[ironjustice]

Myeloperoxidase and free iron levels: potential biomarkers for early
detection and prognosis of ovarian cancer.
Cancer Biomark. 2011-2012;10(6):267-75.
Fletcher NM, Jiang Z, Ali-Fehmi R, Levin NK, Belotte J, Tainsky MA,
Diamond MP, Abu-Soud HM, Saed GM.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, The C.S. Mott Center for
Human Growth and Development, Wayne State University School of
Medicine, Detroit, MI 48201, USA.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: The study sought to identify whether a relationship exists
between serum myeloperoxidase (MPO) and free iron with stages of
ovarian cancer.

METHODS: Serum and tissue samples were collected from women with
stages I through IV ovarian cancer, benign gynecologic conditions,
inflammation, and healthy controls. Myeloperoxidase ELISA and VITROS
Fe Slide assays were used to measure serum and tissue MPO and free
iron levels, respectively. Data were analyzed with a one-way ANOVA
with post-hoc comparisons (p < 0.05 considered significant).

RESULTS: There was a significant increase in the level of free iron
in
serum and tissues obtained from stages II-IV as compared to early-
stage (stage I) ovarian cancer. There was an overlap between early-
stage and inflammation serum MPO levels, however serum free iron
levels were significantly higher in early-stage. There was no
significant change in serum free iron levels between non-cancer
groups. In contrast, there was a significant increase in serum free
iron levels in early-stage as compared to non-cancer groups.

CONCLUSIONS: Collectively, these findings clearly indicate a role for
the combination of serum MPO and free iron as biomarkers for early
detection and prognosis of ovarian cancer.

PMID:22820082

doi: 10.3233/CBM-2012-0255.

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/634q5a

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[BruceS]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:33:00 -0800, ironjustice wrote:

<usual spam>

[carole]

Post by BruceS
<usual spam>

I've been taking cellsalts now for over 25 years and take them when I
notice a symptom as is the way with cellsalts - a person doesn't just
take them for no reason, but in response to a symptom.

Anyway a few years ago I stopped taking ferr phos (iron phosphate) as
I couldn't identify a specific condition relating to iron deficiency.
And guess what, I developed arthritis in my ankle, which I now have to
take ferr phos for to reverse.

Why doesn't ironjustice get a more balanced outlook - for every
scientific study that proves something there is another one that
proves the opposite.

--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

[Chopchinski]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<usual spam>

I've been taking cellsalts now for over 25 years

<snip>


Carole doesn't take cell salts.

Carole ingests, in her words, 'a tablespoon of baking soda in a little
water.' That concoction is not a cell salt.

Cell salts are homeopathic dilutions. And homeopathic remedies have been
shown by study after study to be no more effective than placebo.

Furthermore, Carole claims to have 'cured' a 'foot fungus' that has
plagued her for over a decade. Yet, the foot fungus keeps coming back,
despite her ingestion of the baking soda in water solution.

Bottom line: Carole is a idiot and a quack.

If anyone follows her advice on health, they do so at their own peril.

<snip the rest of her nonsense>

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:28:19 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<usual spam>

I've been taking cellsalts now for over 25 years and take them when I
notice a symptom as is the way with cellsalts - a person doesn't just
take them for no reason, but in response to a symptom.
Anyway a few years ago I stopped taking ferr phos (iron phosphate) as
I couldn't identify a specific condition relating to iron deficiency.
And guess what, I developed arthritis in my ankle, which I now have to
take ferr phos for to reverse.

ferr phos in a homeopathic remedy isn't iron phosphate, Carole it is
an amalgam of three chemicals mixed together, Ferric sulfate, Sodium
acetate, and Sodium phosphate. Just because a mixture of chemicals
containing compounds with Iron and Phosphorus doesn't make it iron
phosphate.

Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Post by carole
Why doesn't ironjustice get a more balanced outlook - for every
scientific study that proves something there is another one that
proves the opposite.

Not so...

[BruceS]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:13:20 -0800, Bob Officer wrote:
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

[Bob Officer]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...

http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-homeopathy/

<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og “gramme-molecules” of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro’s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.

Our homeopath’s saturated salt solution ”mother tincture” would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres – a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon’s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>

It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

[BruceS]

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...
http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-homeopathy/
<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og “gramme-molecules” of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro’s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.
Our homeopath’s saturated salt solution ”mother tincture” would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres – a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon’s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>
It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

So, a 7C solution of LSD still has some LSD in it, just not enough to have
any effect. I'm tempted to do enough Googling and arithmatic to determine
how many homeopathic C dilutions it would take to get plutonium down below
toxic levels, given a 1g dose of the final product, but I'm too lazy to
follow through. I will say that whatever that number is, it's safe to say
that it's enough to make "remedy" ingredients completely inneffective.

More people need to be told about how homeopathic remedies are repeatedly
diluted, so they won't be deluded into buying them. They're sold right
next to actual medicine, with measurable amounts of active ingredients,
leading the consumer to believe there *must* be something to them.

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:14 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...
http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-homeopathy/
<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og “gramme-molecules” of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro’s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.
Our homeopath’s saturated salt solution ”mother tincture” would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres – a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon’s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>
It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

So, a 7C solution of LSD still has some LSD in it, just not enough to have
any effect. I'm tempted to do enough Googling and arithmatic to determine
how many homeopathic C dilutions it would take to get plutonium down below
toxic levels, given a 1g dose of the final product, but I'm too lazy to
follow through. I will say that whatever that number is, it's safe to say
that it's enough to make "remedy" ingredients completely inneffective.
More people need to be told about how homeopathic remedies are repeatedly
diluted, so they won't be deluded into buying them. They're sold right
next to actual medicine, with measurable amounts of active ingredients,
leading the consumer to believe there *must* be something to them.

Sadly one of the most bought homeopathic remedies bought are teething
drops.

Which leads to this page
http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/2010/10/25/fda-warns-about-belladonna-in-teething-tablets/24974/

<cite>
On Saturday the FDA announced that Standard Homeopathic Company had
voluntarily recalled assorted packages of Hyland’s Teething Tablets
because they contain varying amounts of belladonna, a plant whose
leaves and berries are toxic. Also called Deadly Nightshade,
belladonna been used in cosmetics, medicines and as a favorite tool
for murder since the Roman Empire.

Standard Homeopathic, based in Los Angeles, said in a statement that
after “in-depth analysis, a comprehensive review of the company’s
adverse event report log, and more than 85 years of safe usage, the
company is confident that Hyland’s Teething Tablets are safe for
infants and toddlers.”

But the FDA release says it has received reports of serious adverse
events that are consistent with symptoms of belladonna toxicity.
Those include “a depressed level of consciousness, seizure,
difficulty or slowed breathing, lethargy, sleepiness, muscle
weakness, skin flushing, constipation, difficulty urinating, or
agitation.”

Sleepiness, constipation and agitation frankly sound like ordinary
babyhood, but the others are much worse. And yet the FDA says it has
never evaluated Hyland’s “for safety or efficacy, and is not aware of
any proven clinical benefit offered by the product.”
</cite>

Hyland's had to recall the produce as they advertised the remedy as
being a 14C concoction IIRC, and they would have to admit to the
rubes their actually put something real in the pills, and it was a
mistake.

The real problems is no one test the remedies in post production for
quality or quantity. Pan Pacific Pharmaceutical has some very sloppy
manufacturing conditions and had zero post production testing.

What happens if during a manufacturing process if one or two steps is
missed and instead of getting a 12C dilution you get a 10C solution
of Belladonna.

Since the diluted belladonna is put on sugar pills, a baby is apt to
develop a conditioned reflex to fuss to get a dose of sugar. Parent
also develop a conditioned reflex to provide the sugar to stop the
fussing. If the pills actually contain belladonna a parent could
actually poison their child.

The only reason a remedy could carry the label "No side Effects" was
if there was no active substance in them.

[BruceS]

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:14 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...
http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-homeopathy/
<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og “gramme-molecules” of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro’s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.
Our homeopath’s saturated salt solution ”mother tincture” would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres – a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon’s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>
It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

So, a 7C solution of LSD still has some LSD in it, just not enough to have
any effect. I'm tempted to do enough Googling and arithmatic to determine
how many homeopathic C dilutions it would take to get plutonium down below
toxic levels, given a 1g dose of the final product, but I'm too lazy to
follow through. I will say that whatever that number is, it's safe to say
that it's enough to make "remedy" ingredients completely inneffective.
More people need to be told about how homeopathic remedies are repeatedly
diluted, so they won't be deluded into buying them. They're sold right
next to actual medicine, with measurable amounts of active ingredients,
leading the consumer to believe there *must* be something to them.

Sadly one of the most bought homeopathic remedies bought are teething
drops.
Which leads to this page
http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/2010/10/25/fda-warns-about-belladonna-in-teething-tablets/24974/
<cite>
On Saturday the FDA announced that Standard Homeopathic Company had
voluntarily recalled assorted packages of Hyland’s Teething Tablets
because they contain varying amounts of belladonna, a plant whose
leaves and berries are toxic. Also called Deadly Nightshade,
belladonna been used in cosmetics, medicines and as a favorite tool
for murder since the Roman Empire.
Standard Homeopathic, based in Los Angeles, said in a statement that
after “in-depth analysis, a comprehensive review of the company’s
adverse event report log, and more than 85 years of safe usage, the
company is confident that Hyland’s Teething Tablets are safe for
infants and toddlers.”
But the FDA release says it has received reports of serious adverse
events that are consistent with symptoms of belladonna toxicity.
Those include “a depressed level of consciousness, seizure,
difficulty or slowed breathing, lethargy, sleepiness, muscle
weakness, skin flushing, constipation, difficulty urinating, or
agitation.”
Sleepiness, constipation and agitation frankly sound like ordinary
babyhood, but the others are much worse. And yet the FDA says it has
never evaluated Hyland’s “for safety or efficacy, and is not aware of
any proven clinical benefit offered by the product.”
</cite>
Hyland's had to recall the produce as they advertised the remedy as
being a 14C concoction IIRC, and they would have to admit to the
rubes their actually put something real in the pills, and it was a
mistake.
The real problems is no one test the remedies in post production for
quality or quantity. Pan Pacific Pharmaceutical has some very sloppy
manufacturing conditions and had zero post production testing.
What happens if during a manufacturing process if one or two steps is
missed and instead of getting a 12C dilution you get a 10C solution
of Belladonna.
Since the diluted belladonna is put on sugar pills, a baby is apt to
develop a conditioned reflex to fuss to get a dose of sugar. Parent
also develop a conditioned reflex to provide the sugar to stop the
fussing. If the pills actually contain belladonna a parent could
actually poison their child.
The only reason a remedy could carry the label "No side Effects" was
if there was no active substance in them.

I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect. It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them. Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless. That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger". Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:14 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...
http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-homeopathy/
<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og “gramme-molecules” of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro’s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.
Our homeopath’s saturated salt solution ”mother tincture” would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres – a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon’s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>
It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

So, a 7C solution of LSD still has some LSD in it, just not enough to have
any effect. I'm tempted to do enough Googling and arithmatic to determine
how many homeopathic C dilutions it would take to get plutonium down below
toxic levels, given a 1g dose of the final product, but I'm too lazy to
follow through. I will say that whatever that number is, it's safe to say
that it's enough to make "remedy" ingredients completely inneffective.
More people need to be told about how homeopathic remedies are repeatedly
diluted, so they won't be deluded into buying them. They're sold right
next to actual medicine, with measurable amounts of active ingredients,
leading the consumer to believe there *must* be something to them.

Sadly one of the most bought homeopathic remedies bought are teething
drops.
Which leads to this page
http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/2010/10/25/fda-warns-about-belladonna-in-teething-tablets/24974/
<cite>
On Saturday the FDA announced that Standard Homeopathic Company had
voluntarily recalled assorted packages of Hyland’s Teething Tablets
because they contain varying amounts of belladonna, a plant whose
leaves and berries are toxic. Also called Deadly Nightshade,
belladonna been used in cosmetics, medicines and as a favorite tool
for murder since the Roman Empire.
Standard Homeopathic, based in Los Angeles, said in a statement that
after “in-depth analysis, a comprehensive review of the company’s
adverse event report log, and more than 85 years of safe usage, the
company is confident that Hyland’s Teething Tablets are safe for
infants and toddlers.”
But the FDA release says it has received reports of serious adverse
events that are consistent with symptoms of belladonna toxicity.
Those include “a depressed level of consciousness, seizure,
difficulty or slowed breathing, lethargy, sleepiness, muscle
weakness, skin flushing, constipation, difficulty urinating, or
agitation.”
Sleepiness, constipation and agitation frankly sound like ordinary
babyhood, but the others are much worse. And yet the FDA says it has
never evaluated Hyland’s “for safety or efficacy, and is not aware of
any proven clinical benefit offered by the product.”
</cite>
Hyland's had to recall the produce as they advertised the remedy as
being a 14C concoction IIRC, and they would have to admit to the
rubes their actually put something real in the pills, and it was a
mistake.
The real problems is no one test the remedies in post production for
quality or quantity. Pan Pacific Pharmaceutical has some very sloppy
manufacturing conditions and had zero post production testing.
What happens if during a manufacturing process if one or two steps is
missed and instead of getting a 12C dilution you get a 10C solution
of Belladonna.
Since the diluted belladonna is put on sugar pills, a baby is apt to
develop a conditioned reflex to fuss to get a dose of sugar. Parent
also develop a conditioned reflex to provide the sugar to stop the
fussing. If the pills actually contain belladonna a parent could
actually poison their child.
The only reason a remedy could carry the label "No side Effects" was
if there was no active substance in them.

I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect. It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them. Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless. That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger". Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.

Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.

Natural is not automatically safe.

[John H. Gohde]

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:14 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more?  IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water.  Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy.  If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy.  ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...
http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-home...
<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og gramme-molecules of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.
Our homeopath s saturated salt solution mother tincture would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>
It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

So, a 7C solution of LSD still has some LSD in it, just not enough to have
any effect.  I'm tempted to do enough Googling and arithmatic to determine
how many homeopathic C dilutions it would take to get plutonium down below
toxic levels, given a 1g dose of the final product, but I'm too lazy to
follow through.  I will say that whatever that number is, it's safe to say
that it's enough to make "remedy" ingredients completely inneffective.
More people need to be told about how homeopathic remedies are repeatedly
diluted, so they won't be deluded into buying them.  They're sold right
next to actual medicine, with measurable amounts of active ingredients,
leading the consumer to believe there *must* be something to them.

Sadly one of the most bought homeopathic remedies bought are teething
drops.
Which leads to this page
http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/2010/10/25/fda-warns-about-b...
<cite>
On Saturday the FDA announced that Standard Homeopathic Company had
voluntarily recalled assorted packages of Hyland s Teething Tablets
because they contain varying amounts of belladonna, a plant whose
leaves and berries are toxic. Also called Deadly Nightshade,
belladonna been used in cosmetics, medicines and as a favorite tool
for murder since the Roman Empire.
Standard Homeopathic, based in Los Angeles, said in a statement that
after in-depth analysis, a comprehensive review of the company s
adverse event report log, and more than 85 years of safe usage, the
company is confident that Hyland s Teething Tablets are safe for
infants and toddlers.
But the FDA release says it has received reports of serious adverse
events that are consistent with symptoms of belladonna toxicity.
Those include a depressed level of consciousness, seizure,
difficulty or slowed breathing,  lethargy, sleepiness, muscle
weakness, skin flushing, constipation, difficulty urinating, or
agitation.
Sleepiness, constipation and agitation frankly sound like ordinary
babyhood, but the others are much worse. And yet the FDA says it has
never evaluated Hyland s for safety or efficacy, and is not aware of
any proven clinical benefit offered by the product.
</cite>
Hyland's had to recall the produce as they advertised the remedy as
being a 14C concoction IIRC, and they would have to admit to the
rubes their actually put something real in the pills, and it was a
mistake.
The real problems is no one test the remedies in post production for
quality or quantity. Pan Pacific Pharmaceutical has some very sloppy
manufacturing conditions and had zero post production testing.
What happens if during a manufacturing process if one or two steps is
missed and instead of getting a 12C dilution you get a 10C solution
of Belladonna.
Since the diluted belladonna is put on sugar pills, a baby is apt to
develop a conditioned reflex to fuss to get a dose of sugar. Parent
also develop a conditioned reflex to provide the sugar to stop the
fussing. If the pills actually contain belladonna a parent could
actually poison their child.
The only reason a remedy could carry the label "No side Effects" was
if there was no active substance in them.

I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect.  It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them.  Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless.  That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger".  Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.
--
Bob Officer

And, YOU are just completely Psycho!

[BruceS]

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:14 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more?  IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water.  Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy.  If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy.  ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...
http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-home...
<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og gramme-molecules of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.
Our homeopath s saturated salt solution mother tincture would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>
It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

So, a 7C solution of LSD still has some LSD in it, just not enough to have
any effect.  I'm tempted to do enough Googling and arithmatic to determine
how many homeopathic C dilutions it would take to get plutonium down below
toxic levels, given a 1g dose of the final product, but I'm too lazy to
follow through.  I will say that whatever that number is, it's safe to say
that it's enough to make "remedy" ingredients completely inneffective.
More people need to be told about how homeopathic remedies are repeatedly
diluted, so they won't be deluded into buying them.  They're sold right
next to actual medicine, with measurable amounts of active ingredients,
leading the consumer to believe there *must* be something to them.

Sadly one of the most bought homeopathic remedies bought are teething
drops.
Which leads to this page
http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/2010/10/25/fda-warns-about-b...
<cite>
On Saturday the FDA announced that Standard Homeopathic Company had
voluntarily recalled assorted packages of Hyland s Teething Tablets
because they contain varying amounts of belladonna, a plant whose
leaves and berries are toxic. Also called Deadly Nightshade,
belladonna been used in cosmetics, medicines and as a favorite tool
for murder since the Roman Empire.
Standard Homeopathic, based in Los Angeles, said in a statement that
after in-depth analysis, a comprehensive review of the company s
adverse event report log, and more than 85 years of safe usage, the
company is confident that Hyland s Teething Tablets are safe for
infants and toddlers.
But the FDA release says it has received reports of serious adverse
events that are consistent with symptoms of belladonna toxicity.
Those include a depressed level of consciousness, seizure,
difficulty or slowed breathing,  lethargy, sleepiness, muscle
weakness, skin flushing, constipation, difficulty urinating, or
agitation.
Sleepiness, constipation and agitation frankly sound like ordinary
babyhood, but the others are much worse. And yet the FDA says it has
never evaluated Hyland s for safety or efficacy, and is not aware of
any proven clinical benefit offered by the product.
</cite>
Hyland's had to recall the produce as they advertised the remedy as
being a 14C concoction IIRC, and they would have to admit to the
rubes their actually put something real in the pills, and it was a
mistake.
The real problems is no one test the remedies in post production for
quality or quantity. Pan Pacific Pharmaceutical has some very sloppy
manufacturing conditions and had zero post production testing.
What happens if during a manufacturing process if one or two steps is
missed and instead of getting a 12C dilution you get a 10C solution
of Belladonna.
Since the diluted belladonna is put on sugar pills, a baby is apt to
develop a conditioned reflex to fuss to get a dose of sugar. Parent
also develop a conditioned reflex to provide the sugar to stop the
fussing. If the pills actually contain belladonna a parent could
actually poison their child.
The only reason a remedy could carry the label "No side Effects" was
if there was no active substance in them.

I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect.  It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them.  Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless.  That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger".  Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.
--
Bob Officer

And, YOU are just completely Psycho!

Is there some particular thing Bob said with which you disagree? If so,
could you provide some rational basis for that disagreement?

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:22:44 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:14 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more?  IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water.  Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy.  If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy.  ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...
http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-home...
<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og gramme-molecules of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.
Our homeopath s saturated salt solution mother tincture would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>
It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

So, a 7C solution of LSD still has some LSD in it, just not enough to have
any effect.  I'm tempted to do enough Googling and arithmatic to determine
how many homeopathic C dilutions it would take to get plutonium down below
toxic levels, given a 1g dose of the final product, but I'm too lazy to
follow through.  I will say that whatever that number is, it's safe to say
that it's enough to make "remedy" ingredients completely inneffective.
More people need to be told about how homeopathic remedies are repeatedly
diluted, so they won't be deluded into buying them.  They're sold right
next to actual medicine, with measurable amounts of active ingredients,
leading the consumer to believe there *must* be something to them.

Sadly one of the most bought homeopathic remedies bought are teething
drops.
Which leads to this page
http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/2010/10/25/fda-warns-about-b...
<cite>
On Saturday the FDA announced that Standard Homeopathic Company had
voluntarily recalled assorted packages of Hyland s Teething Tablets
because they contain varying amounts of belladonna, a plant whose
leaves and berries are toxic. Also called Deadly Nightshade,
belladonna been used in cosmetics, medicines and as a favorite tool
for murder since the Roman Empire.
Standard Homeopathic, based in Los Angeles, said in a statement that
after in-depth analysis, a comprehensive review of the company s
adverse event report log, and more than 85 years of safe usage, the
company is confident that Hyland s Teething Tablets are safe for
infants and toddlers.
But the FDA release says it has received reports of serious adverse
events that are consistent with symptoms of belladonna toxicity.
Those include a depressed level of consciousness, seizure,
difficulty or slowed breathing,  lethargy, sleepiness, muscle
weakness, skin flushing, constipation, difficulty urinating, or
agitation.
Sleepiness, constipation and agitation frankly sound like ordinary
babyhood, but the others are much worse. And yet the FDA says it has
never evaluated Hyland s for safety or efficacy, and is not aware of
any proven clinical benefit offered by the product.
</cite>
Hyland's had to recall the produce as they advertised the remedy as
being a 14C concoction IIRC, and they would have to admit to the
rubes their actually put something real in the pills, and it was a
mistake.
The real problems is no one test the remedies in post production for
quality or quantity. Pan Pacific Pharmaceutical has some very sloppy
manufacturing conditions and had zero post production testing.
What happens if during a manufacturing process if one or two steps is
missed and instead of getting a 12C dilution you get a 10C solution
of Belladonna.
Since the diluted belladonna is put on sugar pills, a baby is apt to
develop a conditioned reflex to fuss to get a dose of sugar. Parent
also develop a conditioned reflex to provide the sugar to stop the
fussing. If the pills actually contain belladonna a parent could
actually poison their child.
The only reason a remedy could carry the label "No side Effects" was
if there was no active substance in them.

I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect.  It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them.  Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless.  That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger".  Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.
--
Bob Officer

And, YOU are just completely Psycho!

Is there some particular thing Bob said with which you disagree? If so,
could you provide some rational basis for that disagreement?

Asking John to be rational is like requesting water to stop being
wet.

There is no rational response to Facts except for contradicting
information. John is a loony. Science when it supports him is his
friend, when Science Shows he is wrong. Science becomes psycho.

His place is in the Loony Bin for a week at a time with a killfile
score of 515.0

[John H. Gohde]

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:22:44 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:14 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:18:12 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

At 12 C I understand there is a very tiny statistical chances one
might actually have one atom of the active ingrediant is still
there...
http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/a-beginners-guide-to-home...
<cite>
Proper chemists express the concentration of solutions in terms of
molarity, the number og gramme-molecules of the solute in a litre
of solution. A gramme molecule of a substance is a mass in grammes of
the substance numerically equal to its relative molecular mass. In
the case of salt, NaCl has a relative molecular mass of 58.44, so a
1Molar solution of salt contains 58.44 grammes of salt per litre of
solution. One further piece of science, Avogadro s Law tells us that
one mole of a substance contains 6.02 x 10^23 molecules, so our one
molar salt solution contains 6.02 x 10^23 Na+Cl- ion pairs per litre.
Our homeopath s saturated salt solution mother tincture would thus
contain 3.61 x 10^24 ion pairs. A 1c remedy contains 3.61 x 10^22 ion
pairs per litre, a 2c remedy 3.61 x 10^20 ion pairs per litre and so
on. An 11c remedy will contain 361 ion pairs per litre, or put
another way, there is 2.77 ml of water per ion pair. A 12c remedy
will have 277 ml of water per ion pair, a 13c remedy 27.7 litres of
water per ion pair and so on until we reach the 30c remedy which will
have 2.77 x 10^35 litres of water per ion pair. There are one
thousand litres to the cubic metre and one billion (10^9) cubic
metres per cubic kilometre. Thus our 30c remedy would have one sodium
ion and one chlorine ion in 2.77 x 10^23 cubic kilometres a sphere
81,000,000 kilometres across, one hundred times the diamiter of the
Moon s orbit! There is probably not that much water in the entire
galaxy, of course. When our homepath dilutes down to 12c, there are
only a handful of ion pairs left. After that the probability
approaches certainty that the last of the actual ingrediant is thrown
away during the dilution process.
</cite>
It would highly doubtful there would be any of the active substance
in aa 12C dilution... and one you have to drink a lot of the dilution
remedy before one would have any of the active ingredients.

So, a 7C solution of LSD still has some LSD in it, just not enough to have
any effect. I'm tempted to do enough Googling and arithmatic to determine
how many homeopathic C dilutions it would take to get plutonium down below
toxic levels, given a 1g dose of the final product, but I'm too lazy to
follow through. I will say that whatever that number is, it's safe to say
that it's enough to make "remedy" ingredients completely inneffective.
More people need to be told about how homeopathic remedies are repeatedly
diluted, so they won't be deluded into buying them. They're sold right
next to actual medicine, with measurable amounts of active ingredients,
leading the consumer to believe there *must* be something to them.

Sadly one of the most bought homeopathic remedies bought are teething
drops.
Which leads to this page
http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/2010/10/25/fda-warns-about-b...
<cite>
On Saturday the FDA announced that Standard Homeopathic Company had
voluntarily recalled assorted packages of Hyland s Teething Tablets
because they contain varying amounts of belladonna, a plant whose
leaves and berries are toxic. Also called Deadly Nightshade,
belladonna been used in cosmetics, medicines and as a favorite tool
for murder since the Roman Empire.
Standard Homeopathic, based in Los Angeles, said in a statement that
after in-depth analysis, a comprehensive review of the company s
adverse event report log, and more than 85 years of safe usage, the
company is confident that Hyland s Teething Tablets are safe for
infants and toddlers.
But the FDA release says it has received reports of serious adverse
events that are consistent with symptoms of belladonna toxicity.
Those include a depressed level of consciousness, seizure,
difficulty or slowed breathing, lethargy, sleepiness, muscle
weakness, skin flushing, constipation, difficulty urinating, or
agitation.
Sleepiness, constipation and agitation frankly sound like ordinary
babyhood, but the others are much worse. And yet the FDA says it has
never evaluated Hyland s for safety or efficacy, and is not aware of
any proven clinical benefit offered by the product.
</cite>
Hyland's had to recall the produce as they advertised the remedy as
being a 14C concoction IIRC, and they would have to admit to the
rubes their actually put something real in the pills, and it was a
mistake.
The real problems is no one test the remedies in post production for
quality or quantity. Pan Pacific Pharmaceutical has some very sloppy
manufacturing conditions and had zero post production testing.
What happens if during a manufacturing process if one or two steps is
missed and instead of getting a 12C dilution you get a 10C solution
of Belladonna.
Since the diluted belladonna is put on sugar pills, a baby is apt to
develop a conditioned reflex to fuss to get a dose of sugar. Parent
also develop a conditioned reflex to provide the sugar to stop the
fussing. If the pills actually contain belladonna a parent could
actually poison their child.
The only reason a remedy could carry the label "No side Effects" was
if there was no active substance in them.

I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect. It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them. Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless. That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger". Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.
--
Bob Officer

And, YOU are just completely Psycho!

Is there some particular thing Bob said with which you disagree?  If so,
could you provide some rational basis for that disagreement?

Asking John to be rational is like requesting water to stop being
wet.
There is no rational response to Facts except for contradicting
information. John is a loony. Science when it supports him is his
friend, when Science Shows he is wrong. Science becomes psycho.
His place is in the Loony Bin for a week at a time with a killfile
score of 515.0
--
Bob Officer

Sorry, YOU are a Psycho, true and true. :(

[carole]

.

Post by BruceS

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by Bob Officer

Post by BruceS
I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect.  It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them.  Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless.  That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger".  Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.
--
Bob Officer

And, YOU are just completely Psycho!

Is there some particular thing Bob said with which you disagree? If so,
could you provide some rational basis for that disagreement?

Bob is an idiot ...how is that?
We are tired of bob sticking his two bob's [two bob's worth -- get
it?] worth and his scientism beliefs into every argument.

No, I don't believe in much that John Gohde says, however, I also
don't believe in what Bob officer pushes, which is pure scientific
testing for everything and anything regardless of whether it is
traditional, stood the test of time or is accepted alternative
practice.
It is just too easy to banish anything and everything that modern
"science" doesn't agree with. Some of us who have had success with
alternative remedies don't want to be told we're deluded, its the
placebo effect etc.

What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
.

Post by BruceS

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by Bob Officer

Post by BruceS
I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect.  It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them.  Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless.  That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger".  Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.
--
Bob Officer

And, YOU are just completely Psycho!

Is there some particular thing Bob said with which you disagree? If so,
could you provide some rational basis for that disagreement?

Bob is an idiot ...how is that?
We are tired of bob sticking his two bob's [two bob's worth -- get

Who is"We" Carole?

Post by carole
it?] worth and his scientism beliefs into every argument.
No, I don't believe in much that John Gohde says, however, I also
don't believe in what Bob officer pushes, which is pure scientific
testing for everything and anything regardless of whether it is
traditional, stood the test of time or is accepted alternative
practice.

Traditional (medicine) means something believed as a fact, without
testing.

Post by carole
It is just too easy to banish anything and everything that modern
"science" doesn't agree with. Some of us who have had success with
alternative remedies don't want to be told we're deluded, its the
placebo effect etc.

It is all about placebo effect, Carole.

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

[BruceS]

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

[John H. Gohde]

No, I don't believe in much that John Gohde says, ...

That is Okay, Carole. We all cannot be perfect. :)

How do you treat a serious illness?

http://tinyurl.com/buecky5


How do you avoid catching a communicable disease, the common cold,
flu, influenza, the West Nile Virus, H1N1, or any other pandemic virus
scare?

http://tinyurl.com/8thotz8


There is NO REASON to look beyond vitamins, when they work perfectly
well. :)

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously?  I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin).  I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free.  Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month.  There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Well, buddy that is nice. :(

Personally, I wont be getting cancer in my lifetime, least of all
colon cancer.

Colon cancer is one of the easiest of all cancers to prevent.

Isn't knowing what you are talking about wonderful? It NOT how hard
you work that counts, but rather how smart you work. :)

[carole]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:59:49 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

No, I don't believe in much that John Gohde says, ...

That is Okay, Carole. We all cannot be perfect. :)

I wasn't trying to be deliberately derogatory towards your views -
just that nothing you say matches with my views. But you've heard of
the 3 blind men and the elephant I'm sure - maybe I have just got one
angle that works for me and no doubt there are other methodologies
that work for other people.

There are many different alternative therapies and the only criteria
that is important is, do they work?

Post by John H. Gohde
How do you treat a serious illness?
http://tinyurl.com/buecky5
How do you avoid catching a communicable disease, the common cold,
flu, influenza, the West Nile Virus, H1N1, or any other pandemic virus
scare?
http://tinyurl.com/8thotz8
There is NO REASON to look beyond vitamins, when they work perfectly
well. :)

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously?  I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin).  I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free.  Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month.  There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Well, buddy that is nice. :(
Personally, I wont be getting cancer in my lifetime, least of all
colon cancer.
Colon cancer is one of the easiest of all cancers to prevent.

I tend to concur with this view but I suppose that's easy to say if
you've never had it (I haven't had cancer).

You'll have to explain to us what your diet was like before you
developed bowel cancer?

Post by John H. Gohde
Isn't knowing what you are talking about wonderful? It NOT how hard
you work that counts, but rather how smart you work. :)

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Peter Bowditch]

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Real medicine cured my melanoma, the leading cancer killer in
Australia.

What it can't cure but only treat is Type 2 diabetes. The treatment
suggested by my doctor at diagnosis was exercise and a change in diet,
although I do take metformin. Breaking my ankle in May affected my
exercise capacity so I've put on weight since then, but it will go
away again once I'm fully mobile.

So let's see:

1) Real medicine cured my cancer.

2) Real doctors try "alternatives" first for T2 diabetes, only resort
to drugs as an adjunct. The drug is out of patent so anybody can
manufacture it, giving the lie to the alternuts' constant claim that
Big Pharma won't make anything that can't be patented.

3) No herbs or homeopathy can fix broken bones. The painkillers
prescribed by my doctor contained an ingredient which is out of patent
and is derived from a plant.

[BruceS]

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Real medicine cured my melanoma, the leading cancer killer in
Australia.
What it can't cure but only treat is Type 2 diabetes. The treatment
suggested by my doctor at diagnosis was exercise and a change in diet,
although I do take metformin. Breaking my ankle in May affected my
exercise capacity so I've put on weight since then, but it will go
away again once I'm fully mobile.
1) Real medicine cured my cancer.

Another Club member! Congrats, and may you never join the Club activities
again.

Post by Peter Bowditch
2) Real doctors try "alternatives" first for T2 diabetes, only resort to
drugs as an adjunct. The drug is out of patent so anybody can
manufacture it, giving the lie to the alternuts' constant claim that Big
Pharma won't make anything that can't be patented.
3) No herbs or homeopathy can fix broken bones. The painkillers
prescribed by my doctor contained an ingredient which is out of patent
and is derived from a plant.

I find the same sort of thing from my gp. First go for "lifestyle
changes". If there's a treatment that's out of patent, he pushes it. Not
only because it saves me money (even with good insurance), but also
because out-of-patent meds have had more time to be studied for
side-effects. Having gone through a quarter million dollar's worth of meds
in a six-month period, I think I have a better idea of what effect
"big-pharma" has than would some fruitcake with a mania for "alternative"
medicine. The big pharma corps want us to use the latest meds, so they can
reap the benefits of their research. Our doctors just want us to get
better. The alternative medicine crowd just wants some sort of religious
devotion to the cause, no matter the cost in human life.

Big pharma costs.
Mainstream medicine cures.
Alternative treatment brainwashes.

[Lu]

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Real medicine cured my melanoma, the leading cancer killer in
Australia.
What it can't cure but only treat is Type 2 diabetes. The treatment
suggested by my doctor at diagnosis was exercise and a change in diet,
although I do take metformin. Breaking my ankle in May affected my
exercise capacity so I've put on weight since then, but it will go
away again once I'm fully mobile.
1) Real medicine cured my cancer.

Another Club member! Congrats, and may you never join the Club activities
again.

Post by Peter Bowditch
2) Real doctors try "alternatives" first for T2 diabetes, only resort to
drugs as an adjunct. The drug is out of patent so anybody can
manufacture it, giving the lie to the alternuts' constant claim that Big
Pharma won't make anything that can't be patented.
3) No herbs or homeopathy can fix broken bones. The painkillers
prescribed by my doctor contained an ingredient which is out of patent
and is derived from a plant.

I find the same sort of thing from my gp. First go for "lifestyle
changes". If there's a treatment that's out of patent, he pushes it. Not
only because it saves me money (even with good insurance), but also
because out-of-patent meds have had more time to be studied for
side-effects. Having gone through a quarter million dollar's worth of meds
in a six-month period, I think I have a better idea of what effect
"big-pharma" has than would some fruitcake with a mania for "alternative"
medicine. The big pharma corps want us to use the latest meds, so they can
reap the benefits of their research. Our doctors just want us to get
better. The alternative medicine crowd just wants some sort of religious
devotion to the cause, no matter the cost in human life.
Big pharma costs.
Mainstream medicine cures.
Alternative treatment brainwashes.

Is it alright to borrow this for my signature.
--
Lu

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge; it is those
who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that
this or that problem will never be solved by science" --Charles Darwin.

[BruceS]

<snip>

Post by Lu

Post by BruceS
Big pharma costs.
Mainstream medicine cures.
Alternative treatment brainwashes.

Is it alright to borrow this for my signature.

Absolutely! I'm glad you find it worth repeating.

[Lu]

Post by Chopchinski
<snip>

Post by Lu

Post by BruceS
Big pharma costs.
Mainstream medicine cures.
Alternative treatment brainwashes.

Is it alright to borrow this for my signature.

Absolutely! I'm glad you find it worth repeating.

Thank You!

--
Lu

Big pharma costs.
Mainstream medicine cures.
Alternative treatment brainwashes.
- Bruce S

[carole]

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Real medicine cured my melanoma, the leading cancer killer in
Australia.
What it can't cure but only treat is Type 2 diabetes. The treatment
suggested by my doctor at diagnosis was exercise and a change in diet,
although I do take metformin. Breaking my ankle in May affected my
exercise capacity so I've put on weight since then, but it will go
away again once I'm fully mobile.
1) Real medicine cured my cancer.

Another Club member! Congrats, and may you never join the Club activities
again.

Post by Peter Bowditch
2) Real doctors try "alternatives" first for T2 diabetes, only resort to
drugs as an adjunct. The drug is out of patent so anybody can
manufacture it, giving the lie to the alternuts' constant claim that Big
Pharma won't make anything that can't be patented.
3) No herbs or homeopathy can fix broken bones. The painkillers
prescribed by my doctor contained an ingredient which is out of patent
and is derived from a plant.

I find the same sort of thing from my gp. First go for "lifestyle
changes". If there's a treatment that's out of patent, he pushes it. Not
only because it saves me money (even with good insurance), but also
because out-of-patent meds have had more time to be studied for
side-effects. Having gone through a quarter million dollar's worth of meds
in a six-month period,

Did I get that figure right -- $1/4 million?

Post by BruceS
I think I have a better idea of what effect
"big-pharma" has than would some fruitcake with a mania for "alternative"
medicine. The big pharma corps want us to use the latest meds, so they can
reap the benefits of their research. Our doctors just want us to get
better. The alternative medicine crowd just wants some sort of religious
devotion to the cause, no matter the cost in human life.
Big pharma costs.
Mainstream medicine cures.
Alternative treatment brainwashes.

Yes, of course you know what you're talking about -- you wouldn't have
paid all that money for nothing, would you?

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:37:22 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Congratulations and welcome to the club. I am 17 years and counting.

Modern science has used chemo as a tool in treating cancer. Usually
the Combination of Surgery, and sometimes Radiation and Chemo works
well. I understand the 5 year survival rates are getting better and
better. While the 10 and 15 year rates also getting better. Each
change in treatment takes 5, 10 and 15 years or more to evaluate
properly.

[BruceS]

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:37:22 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Congratulations and welcome to the club. I am 17 years and counting.

Good for you! At 17 years, you're firmly back into the general
population, with the associated low risk levels.

Post by Bob Officer
Modern science has used chemo as a tool in treating cancer. Usually the
Combination of Surgery, and sometimes Radiation and Chemo works well. I
understand the 5 year survival rates are getting better and better.
While the 10 and 15 year rates also getting better. Each change in
treatment takes 5, 10 and 15 years or more to evaluate properly.

When I was diagnosed, I checked out the stats. With the previous
best-practice treatment, a stage 3 CRC patient had something like a 50%
5 year survival rate, while the new protocol provided a 65% rate. That
30% improvement was well worth it to me. Even with that, a 2 out of 3
chance of living 5 years didn't seem exactly high. My onc said that my
positive outlook and good physical condition helped considerably, but
whatever the factors, I'm happy to have not only survived, but not have
any measurable cancer. I'm looking forward to the 10 and 15 year points,
as excuses for celebrations if nothing else. I recognise that the chemo
was poison, and has not only caused damage now, but may also lead to
longer term damage. However, without it, I had a high probability of
never being able to discover that damage. Just as heavy smokers have a
lower risk of getting run over by a bus in their 90s, homeopathy
"patients" have a lower chance of encountering secondary damage effects
decades after their treatment.

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:26:36 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:37:22 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

Congratulations and welcome to the club. I am 17 years and counting.

Good for you! At 17 years, you're firmly back into the general
population, with the associated low risk levels.

But still with a risk. I see my Doctor yearly for a head to toe
comparison to photos. Any sign of change that the little nevi get cut
off and tested.

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
Modern science has used chemo as a tool in treating cancer. Usually the
Combination of Surgery, and sometimes Radiation and Chemo works well. I
understand the 5 year survival rates are getting better and better.
While the 10 and 15 year rates also getting better. Each change in
treatment takes 5, 10 and 15 years or more to evaluate properly.

When I was diagnosed, I checked out the stats. With the previous
best-practice treatment, a stage 3 CRC patient had something like a 50%
5 year survival rate, while the new protocol provided a 65% rate. That
30% improvement was well worth it to me. Even with that, a 2 out of 3
chance of living 5 years didn't seem exactly high. My onc said that my
positive outlook and good physical condition helped considerably, but
whatever the factors, I'm happy to have not only survived, but not have
any measurable cancer. I'm looking forward to the 10 and 15 year points,
as excuses for celebrations if nothing else. I recognise that the chemo
was poison, and has not only caused damage now, but may also lead to
longer term damage. However, without it, I had a high probability of
never being able to discover that damage. Just as heavy smokers have a
lower risk of getting run over by a bus in their 90s, homeopathy
"patients" have a lower chance of encountering secondary damage effects
decades after their treatment.

I also checked the stats, and 15 years ago melanoma was very
treatable when caught early. Stage three and beyond was consider poor
candidates for reaching the 5 year point. the good think it melanoma
growth rates from Stage 1 to 3 were slow. The high growth rate
started when the lesions got to stage three and started growing into
muscles and organs.

[carole]

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?

And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

[Bob Officer]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 11:05:13 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?

IIRC, the current 5 year survival rate for all cancers is about
80-85%, Carole.

The ten year survival rate survival rate isn't as good because that
only has the numbers for people whose cancers were discovered 10
years ago when not as many treatment options were around, for those
people

Likewise the 20 year survival rate isn't going to be as good as the 5
or 10 year rate, because the treatment options were even smaller.

You can not ignore the fact as the options available for treatment
has increased, so have the 1, 5, 10 and 15 and 20 year rates.

Post by carole
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

Lots... It seem far more than you do, Carole.

[BruceS]

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

The best I can recall, the cure rate is somewhere in the range of 90% now,
but you could do a little searching and get the exact number. The cure
rate for any condition, using homeopathic remedies alone, approximates the
untreated rate of recovery.

[carole]

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

The best I can recall, the cure rate is somewhere in the range of 90% now,
but you could do a little searching and get the exact number. The cure
rate for any condition, using homeopathic remedies alone, approximates the
untreated rate of recovery.

http://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/all.html
"It is estimated that 1,638,910 men and women (848,170 men and 790,740
women) will be diagnosed with and 577,190 men and women will die of
cancer of all sites in 20121."

Cure rate about 65% - ie to 5 years
About 1,000,000 roughtly survivors each year

But not so many people alive with history of cancer.

"Prevalence
On January 1, 2009, in the United States there were approximately
12,553,337 men and women alive who had a history of cancer of all
sites -- 5,811,097 men and 6,742,240 women. This includes any person
alive on January 1, 2009 who had been diagnosed with cancer of all
sites at any point prior to January 1, 2009 and includes persons with
active disease and those who are cured of their disease. "

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Fiscal Cliff]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

The best I can recall, the cure rate is somewhere in the range of 90% now,
but you could do a little searching and get the exact number. The cure
rate for any condition, using homeopathic remedies alone, approximates the
untreated rate of recovery.

http://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/all.html
"It is estimated that 1,638,910 men and women (848,170 men and 790,740
women) will be diagnosed with and 577,190 men and women will die of
cancer of all sites in 20121."
Cure rate about 65% - ie to 5 years
About 1,000,000 roughtly survivors each year
But not so many people alive with history of cancer.

No alternative health remedies have a better track record in treating
cancer than conventional medical remedies, certainly not the baking soda
remedy by Simonici often advocated by Carole.

Carole <-- knows nothing, and understands even less.

[Bob Officer]

On Sun, 16 Dec 2012 00:43:57 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

The best I can recall, the cure rate is somewhere in the range of 90% now,
but you could do a little searching and get the exact number. The cure
rate for any condition, using homeopathic remedies alone, approximates the
untreated rate of recovery.

http://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/all.html
"It is estimated that 1,638,910 men and women (848,170 men and 790,740
women) will be diagnosed with and 577,190 men and women will die of
cancer of all sites in 20121."
Cure rate about 65% - ie to 5 years
About 1,000,000 roughtly survivors each year
But not so many people alive with history of cancer.

Because they die from other causes, Carole. A person who was 60 years
of age which he had cancer and 15 years later at age 75 dies in a
automobile accident,heart attack, stroke, aneurism or any other
disorder and is no longer alive is not counted in the stats below,
even when his death had nothing to with the cancer and survivor
rates.

Post by carole
"Prevalence
On January 1, 2009, in the United States there were approximately
12,553,337 men and women alive who had a history of cancer of all
sites -- 5,811,097 men and 6,742,240 women. This includes any person
alive on January 1, 2009 who had been diagnosed with cancer of all
sites at any point prior to January 1, 2009 and includes persons with
active disease and those who are cured of their disease. "

Critical thinking means you have to read and understand what is being
said.

[carole]

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

The best I can recall, the cure rate is somewhere in the range of 90% now,
but you could do a little searching and get the exact number. The cure
rate for any condition, using homeopathic remedies alone, approximates the
untreated rate of recovery.

Cancer is generally taken as cured at the 5-year survival rate - ie 5
years from time of diagnosis.

What this means is that a person can die after 5 years but still be
counted as a survivor.
Early diagnosis can mean more chance of survival OR the 5 year
survival rate comes around more quickly.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[John H. Gohde]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously?  I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin).  I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free.  Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month.  There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

The best I can recall, the cure rate is somewhere in the range of 90% now,
but you could do a little searching and get the exact number.  The cure
rate for any condition, using homeopathic remedies alone, approximates the
untreated rate of recovery.

Cancer is generally taken as cured at the 5-year survival rate - ie 5
years from time of diagnosis.
What this means is that a person can die after 5 years but still be
counted as a survivor.
Early diagnosis can mean more chance of survival OR the 5 year
survival rate comes around more quickly.
--
carolewww.conspiracee.com

It means that a person can die one day after the 5 year mark and still
be counted as a survivor.

That is what I call lying through your teeth. I hate the way Science
Psychos lie. :)

[carole]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:09:07 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously?  I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin).  I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free.  Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month.  There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

The best I can recall, the cure rate is somewhere in the range of 90% now,
but you could do a little searching and get the exact number.  The cure
rate for any condition, using homeopathic remedies alone, approximates the
untreated rate of recovery.

Cancer is generally taken as cured at the 5-year survival rate - ie 5
years from time of diagnosis.
What this means is that a person can die after 5 years but still be
counted as a survivor.
Early diagnosis can mean more chance of survival OR the 5 year
survival rate comes around more quickly.
--
carolewww.conspiracee.com

It means that a person can die one day after the 5 year mark and still
be counted as a survivor.
That is what I call lying through your teeth. I hate the way Science
Psychos lie. :)

Its called manipulattion of statistics to create a positive
impression.


How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created
http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/BogusScience.html 


--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Peter Bowditch]

Post by carole

Post by Chopchinski

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:26:41 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer

Post by carole
What has modern medicine done to cure diabetes, ms, alzheimers, cancer
etc? Modern science needs to pull its head in and back down and we
don't need allopaths ruling the roost in mha.

It cured my cancer.

Seriously? I had stage 3 colon cancer, and was treated with a combination
of surgery and chemo (FOLFOX6 w/Avastin). I'm now past the 6 year mark,
and (AFAICT) cancer free. Without the surgery I'd have been dead
within a month. There's no way to tell what would have happened without
the chemo, but statistically, I had a much better chance of survival with
it than without.

And what is the percentage of people who are cured of cancer by modern
medicine?

As there is no single thing that is "cancer" your question is
meaningless.

For early-catch melanoma and other cancers that can be cured by
surgery it's almost 100%. For childhood leukemia which is treated by
chemotherapy it's 80% and rising. For some brain cancers it's quite
low.

For any cancer treated by alternative means it's 0%.

Post by carole
And what do you know about the war on cancer which was initiated by
President Nixon in 1971?

It's has saved or extended the lives of possibly millions of people,
but there is still a lot of work to be done.

[John H. Gohde]

Post by Peter Bowditch
It's has saved or extended the lives of possibly millions of people,
but there is still a lot of work to be done.

Tell me another tall tale. This one is so stupid, that only a fool
would believe these science lies.

[John H. Gohde]

No, I don't believe in much that John Gohde says, ...

That is Okay, Carole. We all cannot be perfect. :)


How do you treat a serious illness?

http://tinyurl.com/buecky5


How do you avoid catching a communicable disease, the common cold,
flu, influenza, the West Nile Virus, H1N1, or any other pandemic virus
scare?

http://tinyurl.com/8thotz8


There is NO REASON to look beyond vitamins, when they work perfectly
well. :)

[carole]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:33:41 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

No, I don't believe in much that John Gohde says, ...

That is Okay, Carole. We all cannot be perfect. :)

Sure John -- you have your theories, I have mine.
And this is the problem with mha - that the allopaths always jump in
with their 2 bob's worth before the rest of us get a chance to discuss
or compare our differing viewpoints.

Of course they all agree with each other and march in lockstep because
mainstream medicine is fascist medicine, fascism being where state and
government join together to dictate state of affairs. And this is what
we have at the moment - a situation where corporations and government
dictate through FDA, NIMH in US and TGA in Australia. They will march
into any alternative setup with guns drawn and remove whatever they
deem to be contrary to their official position.

Post by John H. Gohde
How do you treat a serious illness?
http://tinyurl.com/buecky5

I haven't got a strict position on treating illness. The only thing I
advocate is removal of toxemia, a term used which is a bit hard to
define. I get this term through deducing what the naturapaths of old
were on about. Personally, I have come to think that the soil theory
is correct over the germ theory like bechamp said, and a few others
from around that period in history.

Post by John H. Gohde
How do you avoid catching a communicable disease, the common cold,
flu, influenza, the West Nile Virus, H1N1, or any other pandemic virus
scare?
http://tinyurl.com/8thotz8

I lean towards the theory that people become prone to catching disease
based on their level of toxemia.

Post by John H. Gohde
There is NO REASON to look beyond vitamins, when they work perfectly
well. :)

OK, and my position is that minerals are the solution.
I haven't got much experience with vitamins - obviously they are both
part of nutrition but I don't seem to notice any symptoms that can't
be fixed by minerals - ie so far that is.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Fiscal Cliff]

Post by carole
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:33:41 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

No, I don't believe in much that John Gohde says, ...

That is Okay, Carole. We all cannot be perfect. :)

Sure John -- you have your theories, I have mine.

Carole's theories are balderdash and poppycock.

She is an idiot, and her own words have made her so.

[John H. Gohde]

Post by carole
OK, and my position is that minerals are the solution.
I haven't got much experience with vitamins - obviously they are both
part of nutrition but I don't seem to notice any symptoms that can't
be fixed by minerals - ie so far that is.

There is some truth to this.

Chronic infections can be cause by either an insufficiency of the
mineral Zinc, or Vitamin A.

In America, people are more likely to be deficient in Vitamin A, IMHO.



Of course, all that, is pure academics.

I advocate a full spectrum approach to Wellness. :)

http://tinyurl.com/8thotz8

"How do you avoid catching a communicable disease, the common cold,
flu, influenza, the West Nile Virus, H1N1, or any other pandemic virus
scare? -- Supplement with approximately 5,000 IU of vitamin D-3, 50 mg
of vitamin B-3 (nicotinamide), and 25 mg of zinc gluconate every day,
as well as 10,000 IU of vitamin A twice a week."

Beyond that, I recommend routine exercise, eating a healthy diet,
juicing, and even mind-body approaches to improve health.



But, even if you are total health dumb-ass taking faithfully and
consistently for a at least 30 consecutive days - "approximately 5,000
IU of vitamin D-3, 50 mg of vitamin B-3 (nicotinamide), and 25 mg of
zinc gluconate every day, as well as 10,000 IU of vitamin A twice a
week" - will save your butt!



Those already suffering from a deadly communicable disease, such as
malaria, can be cured outright with straight vitamin A.

http://tinyurl.com/buecky5

If that fails, then there is the backup vitamin treatments of: "high
oral dosages of vitamin C, up to bowel tolerance, as well as up to 3
grams a day of nicotinamide (vitamin B-3);" Not to mention, IV
vitamin C.



Ergo, a combination of vitamins and minerals does work, and have been
otherwise shown to work, IMHO.



I, myself, have personally been able to save my own butt with vitamin
C and vitamin A, on at more than several different occasions. These
two vitamins should definitely be part of anybody's emergency survival
kit.

And, as already stated, my ideas on vitamin A have already been
successfully field tested on an adult female who was medically
diagnosed with an obstructed colon.

[carole]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:01:07 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by carole
OK, and my position is that minerals are the solution.
I haven't got much experience with vitamins - obviously they are both
part of nutrition but I don't seem to notice any symptoms that can't
be fixed by minerals - ie so far that is.

There is some truth to this.
Chronic infections can be cause by either an insufficiency of the
mineral Zinc, or Vitamin A.
In America, people are more likely to be deficient in Vitamin A, IMHO.
Of course, all that, is pure academics.
I advocate a full spectrum approach to Wellness. :)
http://tinyurl.com/8thotz8
"How do you avoid catching a communicable disease, the common cold,
flu, influenza, the West Nile Virus, H1N1, or any other pandemic virus
scare? -- Supplement with approximately 5,000 IU of vitamin D-3, 50 mg
of vitamin B-3 (nicotinamide), and 25 mg of zinc gluconate every day,
as well as 10,000 IU of vitamin A twice a week."
Beyond that, I recommend routine exercise, eating a healthy diet,
juicing, and even mind-body approaches to improve health.

You could be right, or mostly right but you understand that I have
developed my own system of minerals which works for me.
Maybe vitamins help minerals to work and vice versa.
Look I could try taking more vitamin A for a while and see what
happens.

Post by John H. Gohde
But, even if you are total health dumb-ass taking faithfully and
consistently for a at least 30 consecutive days - "approximately 5,000
IU of vitamin D-3, 50 mg of vitamin B-3 (nicotinamide), and 25 mg of
zinc gluconate every day, as well as 10,000 IU of vitamin A twice a
week" - will save your butt!

What do you think of niacin rather than nicotinamide which is the
no-flush version of niacin?

According to scientology niacin helps remove radioactivity from the
body, but not nicotinamide.

Post by John H. Gohde
Those already suffering from a deadly communicable disease, such as
malaria, can be cured outright with straight vitamin A.

Interesting. My theory for getting rid of malaria involves sodium
sulphate amongst other things.

Post by John H. Gohde
http://tinyurl.com/buecky5
If that fails, then there is the backup vitamin treatments of: "high
oral dosages of vitamin C, up to bowel tolerance, as well as up to 3
grams a day of nicotinamide (vitamin B-3);" Not to mention, IV
vitamin C.
Ergo, a combination of vitamins and minerals does work, and have been
otherwise shown to work, IMHO.

But can you get rid of athletes foot by using nutrition -- not with
anything topical such as fungicide or tea tree oil or anything?

Post by John H. Gohde
I, myself, have personally been able to save my own butt with vitamin
C and vitamin A, on at more than several different occasions. These
two vitamins should definitely be part of anybody's emergency survival
kit.
And, as already stated, my ideas on vitamin A have already been
successfully field tested on an adult female who was medically
diagnosed with an obstructed colon.

I'm going onto a bit of a carrot binge at the moment. I'll see what
happens.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[John H. Gohde]

Post by John H. Gohde
Those already suffering from a deadly communicable disease, such as
malaria, can be cured outright with straight vitamin A.

This information is actually in PubMed (ie, the scientific
literature).

Quite a few studies indicate that vitamin A (ie, retinol) is being
given to children in Africa to both prevent and cure malaria.

Of course, you need a brain to correctly interpret this information.

First in Africa, Vitamin D is synthesized in your skin in huge amounts
all year round.

Vitamin C from ripe fruit is available in abundance all year round,
except perhaps in over populated areas.

In addition, I would suspect that these children cannot be deficient
in the mineral Zinc.

For teenagers, the cure for malaria is 200,000 IU vitamin A (ie,
retinol) for two days in row.

For prevention, children are given vitamin A supplementation orally
only about once every six months.

[carole]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:11:32 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect.  It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them.  Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless.  That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger".  Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.

And what is scientifically proven is not necessarily safe or
efficacious either bob.

How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created
http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/BogusScience.html

Post by Bob Officer
--
Bob Officer

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[John H. Gohde]

Post by carole
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:11:32 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect.  It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them.  Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless.  That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger".  Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.

And what is scientifically proven is not necessarily safe or
efficacious either bob.
How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created

The hell with science!

All of my ideas on infections and communicable diseases have been
field tested on something as serious and deadly as a Bowel obstruction
in an adult female, an infected toe, as well as on a very bad
persistent cough.

Vitamin A works, ... End of story. :)

[carole]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 04:39:50 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by carole
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:11:32 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect.  It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them.  Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless.  That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger".  Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.

And what is scientifically proven is not necessarily safe or
efficacious either bob.
How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created

The hell with science!

But we're not dealing with real science, just fake studies to support
pharmaceutical drugs, a situation that I think has been going on for a
long time.

TO BE OR NOT TO BE? 150 Years of Hidden Knowledge
by Christopher Bird 1991 (Nexus Magazine April 1992)
http://www.whale.to/p/bird.html

Post by John H. Gohde
All of my ideas on infections and communicable diseases have been
field tested on something as serious and deadly as a Bowel obstruction
in an adult female, an infected toe, as well as on a very bad
persistent cough.
Vitamin A works, ... End of story. :)

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Fiscal Cliff]

Post by carole
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:11:32 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:55:42 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS
I would bet that 10C, or even 6C, would still be too diluted to have any
effect. It sounds like they skipped not two or six steps, but almost all
of them. Consider a baby consuming 100 grams (rather a lot of sugar) of
the final sugar product. If it's 6C, that 100g should have about .0001
micrograms of belladonna alkaloids, which would be about what the baby
would get by looking at a tomato plant from across the room. If a
homeopathic "remedy" is made following their claimed practices, and has
even six or seven C dilutions, it should be safe, though completely
useless. That they left in enough belladonna alkaloids to affect the
babies indicates fraud beyond even their usual practice. Maybe consumers
of homeopathic remedies should be cautioned to put them through another
1:100 dilutions, to make them "stronger". Using homeopathic logic, they
could even do 1:10,000 dilutions three or four times in a row, and end up
with something so incredibly strong that you'd only need a single grain of
the final product.

I read a lot of homeopathic web sites, I even saw one place where a
woman asked if she should be using 500C or 1M dilutions because the
60C and 100C remedies are having no effect at all on the condition.
Some homeopaths dupe people using the words "completely natural".
Arsenic is completely natural and deadly. Opium is completely nature
and completely addictive.
Natural is not automatically safe.

And what is scientifically proven is not necessarily safe or
efficacious either bob.

Carole stated earlier that she killfiled Bob Officer, among others.

So she replies to his posts indirectly through someone else's post.

Carole <-- the Lunatic from Down Under (LfDU)

<snip the rest>

[carole]

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.

There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.


--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Peter Bowditch]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.
There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.

And this is not one of them. Modern science can explain the idiocy of
homeopathy very well.

[BruceS]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.
There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.

We call those things "magic", and rational people just walk carefully past
the True Believers, trying not to make eye contact. Homeopathic products
need to be clearly marked as "Based On Magical Thinking" to avoid
defrauding the uninformed.

[carole]

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.
There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.

We call those things "magic", and rational people just walk carefully past
the True Believers, trying not to make eye contact. Homeopathic products
need to be clearly marked as "Based On Magical Thinking" to avoid
defrauding the uninformed.

We?
Who is we ...you mean the pharmaceutical cartel that wants to
eliminate any / all competition?
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do and prefer to rubbish it along with any
other alternative remedy that would explode their little "science"
myths.

I can proove that homeopathy works although I've mentioned it many
times before but none of the allopathic true believers are really
serious about knowing -- because if homeopathy works then it will rock
their little world.

It is a simple test that I put to believers in "science-based
medicine" which is really crap.

The cellsalt silica taken in homeopathic form eliminates underarm
odour and wetness. Now if homeopathy is useless then it wouldn't work.
I haven't used underarm deodorant for years - just homeopathic 6x
silica.

Now if you still want to argue that homeopathy is useless then there's
nothing left to discuss and I am beating my head against a brick wall.
I have so far killfiled any/all allopaths for similar things as I am
tired of arguments going around in circles.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:20:26 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.
There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.

We call those things "magic", and rational people just walk carefully past
the True Believers, trying not to make eye contact. Homeopathic products
need to be clearly marked as "Based On Magical Thinking" to avoid
defrauding the uninformed.

We?
Who is we ...you mean the pharmaceutical cartel that wants to
eliminate any / all competition?

We those that use critical thinking which just happens to rule out
magic beliefs.

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do and prefer to rubbish it along with any
other alternative remedy that would explode their little "science"
myths.

The if also show you really do not believe it works either, Carole.
you continue to lie to yourself.

Post by carole
I can proove that homeopathy works although I've mentioned it many
times before but none of the allopathic true believers are really
serious about knowing -- because if homeopathy works then it will rock
their little world.

Show evidence you had any of these problems and then show evidence
you don't have them anymore. EVIDENCE is the key word, Carole.
Evidence is something you lack.

Post by carole
It is a simple test that I put to believers in "science-based
medicine" which is really crap.
The cellsalt silica taken in homeopathic form eliminates underarm
odour and wetness. Now if homeopathy is useless then it wouldn't work.
I haven't used underarm deodorant for years - just homeopathic 6x
silica.

and people avoid you in real life.

Post by carole
Now if you still want to argue that homeopathy is useless then there's
nothing left to discuss and I am beating my head against a brick wall.
I have so far killfiled any/all allopaths for similar things as I am
tired of arguments going around in circles.

Carole's Echo Chamber in full effect.

[Peter Bowditch]

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:47:36 +1100, in misc.health.alternative, Peter

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

the hard part would be proving it actually worked.

In any test using Homeopathic Remedies and a Placebo the results were
identical.

You see homeopathic remedies are nothing more than sugar pills.

[BruceS]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:53:38 -0800, Bob Officer wrote:
<snip>

Post by Bob Officer
You see homeopathic remedies are nothing more than sugar pills.

You wish. Who oversees the production of those things, to be sure they're
following their own protocols for dilution, and that they aren't
introducing dangerous substances as part of the final formulation? When I
buy sugar at the grocery, I'm pretty confident that there isn't a lot of
nasty contamination. With homeopathic products, I'd always have to wonder
if they'd even bothered to use clean equipment.

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:29:24 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Chopchinski
<snip>

Post by Bob Officer
You see homeopathic remedies are nothing more than sugar pills.

You wish. Who oversees the production of those things, to be sure they're
following their own protocols for dilution, and that they aren't
introducing dangerous substances as part of the final formulation? When I
buy sugar at the grocery, I'm pretty confident that there isn't a lot of
nasty contamination. With homeopathic products, I'd always have to wonder
if they'd even bothered to use clean equipment.

indeed one major manufacture also manufacture regular main stream
medicine. Their quality program was so poor they mislabeled products,
and often used floor sweepings as filler as well as failed to clean
the machinery between batches as Best Practice Standards would
dictate.

Most of the homeopathic manufacturers just buy ready made pills and
no one can the "remedy" for the untreated pills.

[BruceS]

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:29:24 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Chopchinski
<snip>

Post by Bob Officer
You see homeopathic remedies are nothing more than sugar pills.

You wish. Who oversees the production of those things, to be sure they're
following their own protocols for dilution, and that they aren't
introducing dangerous substances as part of the final formulation? When I
buy sugar at the grocery, I'm pretty confident that there isn't a lot of
nasty contamination. With homeopathic products, I'd always have to wonder
if they'd even bothered to use clean equipment.

indeed one major manufacture also manufacture regular main stream
medicine. Their quality program was so poor they mislabeled products,
and often used floor sweepings as filler as well as failed to clean
the machinery between batches as Best Practice Standards would
dictate.

That's pretty much what I thought. They're not controlled in the same way
that legitimate medicine producers are. Floor sweepings? Probably more
effective than the "remedy" would otherwise be.

Post by Bob Officer
Most of the homeopathic manufacturers just buy ready made pills and no
one can the "remedy" for the untreated pills.

I think you a whole verb there.

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:19:13 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:29:24 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Chopchinski
<snip>

Post by Bob Officer
You see homeopathic remedies are nothing more than sugar pills.

You wish. Who oversees the production of those things, to be sure they're
following their own protocols for dilution, and that they aren't
introducing dangerous substances as part of the final formulation? When I
buy sugar at the grocery, I'm pretty confident that there isn't a lot of
nasty contamination. With homeopathic products, I'd always have to wonder
if they'd even bothered to use clean equipment.

indeed one major manufacture also manufacture regular main stream
medicine. Their quality program was so poor they mislabeled products,
and often used floor sweepings as filler as well as failed to clean
the machinery between batches as Best Practice Standards would
dictate.

That's pretty much what I thought. They're not controlled in the same way
that legitimate medicine producers are. Floor sweepings? Probably more
effective than the "remedy" would otherwise be.

Post by Bob Officer
Most of the homeopathic manufacturers just buy ready made pills and no
one can {tell} the "remedy" for the untreated pills.

I think you a whole verb there.

Does that help.

[carole]

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:29:24 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Chopchinski
<snip>

Post by Bob Officer
You see homeopathic remedies are nothing more than sugar pills.

You wish. Who oversees the production of those things, to be sure they're
following their own protocols for dilution, and that they aren't
introducing dangerous substances as part of the final formulation? When I
buy sugar at the grocery, I'm pretty confident that there isn't a lot of
nasty contamination. With homeopathic products, I'd always have to wonder
if they'd even bothered to use clean equipment.

indeed one major manufacture also manufacture regular main stream
medicine. Their quality program was so poor they mislabeled products,
and often used floor sweepings as filler as well as failed to clean
the machinery between batches as Best Practice Standards would
dictate.

That's pretty much what I thought. They're not controlled in the same way
that legitimate medicine producers are. Floor sweepings? Probably more
effective than the "remedy" would otherwise be.

Post by Bob Officer
Most of the homeopathic manufacturers just buy ready made pills and no
one can the "remedy" for the untreated pills.

I think you a whole verb there.

Bob stutters when he knows he's telling porkies.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Fiscal Cliff]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:29:24 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Chopchinski
<snip>

Post by Bob Officer
You see homeopathic remedies are nothing more than sugar pills.

You wish. Who oversees the production of those things, to be sure they're
following their own protocols for dilution, and that they aren't
introducing dangerous substances as part of the final formulation? When I
buy sugar at the grocery, I'm pretty confident that there isn't a lot of
nasty contamination. With homeopathic products, I'd always have to wonder
if they'd even bothered to use clean equipment.

indeed one major manufacture also manufacture regular main stream
medicine. Their quality program was so poor they mislabeled products,
and often used floor sweepings as filler as well as failed to clean
the machinery between batches as Best Practice Standards would
dictate.

That's pretty much what I thought. They're not controlled in the same way
that legitimate medicine producers are. Floor sweepings? Probably more
effective than the "remedy" would otherwise be.

Post by Bob Officer
Most of the homeopathic manufacturers just buy ready made pills and no
one can the "remedy" for the untreated pills.

I think you a whole verb there.

Bob stutters when he knows he's telling porkies.

Carole is a liar.

[BruceS]

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

That's a big point with science. Scientists don't deny something happens
just because they don't understand *why* it happens. Instead, they
attempt to repeat it in controlled conditions, to find out what factors
are involved. Once a model is found to explain the action, a scientist
will come up with tests for that model, attempting to break it.

[Peter Bowditch]

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Yes. I used to do it as part of my stage presentations about quackery.
I'd down a packet of homeopathic sleeping tablets, and if I was
speaking at a dinner I'd wash them down with wine. Since being
diagnosed with diabetes I don't do the whole packet of large lactose
tablets any more. Now I confine myself to the 15-cent-each pillules,
because swallowing a few hundreds-and-thousands won't hurt me and
illustrates the fraud of homeopathy even better.

Post by BruceS
That's a big point with science. Scientists don't deny something happens
just because they don't understand *why* it happens. Instead, they
attempt to repeat it in controlled conditions, to find out what factors
are involved. Once a model is found to explain the action, a scientist
will come up with tests for that model, attempting to break it.

[BruceS]

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Yes. I used to do it as part of my stage presentations about quackery.
I'd down a packet of homeopathic sleeping tablets, and if I was
speaking at a dinner I'd wash them down with wine. Since being
diagnosed with diabetes I don't do the whole packet of large lactose
tablets any more. Now I confine myself to the 15-cent-each pillules,
because swallowing a few hundreds-and-thousands won't hurt me and
illustrates the fraud of homeopathy even better.

I thought so. I never heard a response from the homeopathic crowd to
that, or other similar demonstrations. Washing down a bunch of sleeping
pills with wine, with no noticeable effect? Hear no truth, see no truth,
speak no truth. I thought I remembered something about the pills tasting
like they might be made of rat droppings, but that may have been someone
else. The belief in homeopathy buggers logic.

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:16:19 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Yes. I used to do it as part of my stage presentations about quackery.
I'd down a packet of homeopathic sleeping tablets, and if I was
speaking at a dinner I'd wash them down with wine. Since being
diagnosed with diabetes I don't do the whole packet of large lactose
tablets any more. Now I confine myself to the 15-cent-each pillules,
because swallowing a few hundreds-and-thousands won't hurt me and
illustrates the fraud of homeopathy even better.

I thought so. I never heard a response from the homeopathic crowd to
that, or other similar demonstrations. Washing down a bunch of sleeping
pills with wine, with no noticeable effect? Hear no truth, see no truth,
speak no truth. I thought I remembered something about the pills tasting
like they might be made of rat droppings, but that may have been someone
else. The belief in homeopathy buggers logic.

It buggers itself with contradictory evidence. Even the person that
"invented" homeopathy was being doubt it when he wrote:

"There must be some limit to the thing. It cannot go on to infinity"
"Es muss ein Ende geben, es kann nicht bis ins Unendliche
weitergehen"
Samuel Hahnemann to Dr Schreter, Sept 13th 1829. Writing about
dilutions of Homeopathic Dilutions.

If the water acquires a memory, as claimed by modern homeopaths, of
the substance during dilutions, what happens to the memory when the
water evaporates away?

[BruceS]

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:16:19 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Yes. I used to do it as part of my stage presentations about quackery.
I'd down a packet of homeopathic sleeping tablets, and if I was
speaking at a dinner I'd wash them down with wine. Since being
diagnosed with diabetes I don't do the whole packet of large lactose
tablets any more. Now I confine myself to the 15-cent-each pillules,
because swallowing a few hundreds-and-thousands won't hurt me and
illustrates the fraud of homeopathy even better.

I thought so. I never heard a response from the homeopathic crowd to
that, or other similar demonstrations. Washing down a bunch of sleeping
pills with wine, with no noticeable effect? Hear no truth, see no truth,
speak no truth. I thought I remembered something about the pills tasting
like they might be made of rat droppings, but that may have been someone
else. The belief in homeopathy buggers logic.

It buggers itself with contradictory evidence. Even the person that
"There must be some limit to the thing. It cannot go on to infinity"
"Es muss ein Ende geben, es kann nicht bis ins Unendliche
weitergehen"
Samuel Hahnemann to Dr Schreter, Sept 13th 1829. Writing about
dilutions of Homeopathic Dilutions.
If the water acquires a memory, as claimed by modern homeopaths, of
the substance during dilutions, what happens to the memory when the
water evaporates away?

It transforms to pure vapor, leaving nothing but a memory behind.

Seriously, what happens when the user's body dilutes the substance
further, and then excretes or secretes the result into the sewage or
septic system? Do the purification processes designed to dilute and
purify waste just make it that much stronger? Maybe it doesn't work
without the magic words and tapping against magic leather, so we're safe.

[Bob Officer]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 08:04:52 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:16:19 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Yes. I used to do it as part of my stage presentations about quackery.
I'd down a packet of homeopathic sleeping tablets, and if I was
speaking at a dinner I'd wash them down with wine. Since being
diagnosed with diabetes I don't do the whole packet of large lactose
tablets any more. Now I confine myself to the 15-cent-each pillules,
because swallowing a few hundreds-and-thousands won't hurt me and
illustrates the fraud of homeopathy even better.

I thought so. I never heard a response from the homeopathic crowd to
that, or other similar demonstrations. Washing down a bunch of sleeping
pills with wine, with no noticeable effect? Hear no truth, see no truth,
speak no truth. I thought I remembered something about the pills tasting
like they might be made of rat droppings, but that may have been someone
else. The belief in homeopathy buggers logic.

It buggers itself with contradictory evidence. Even the person that
"There must be some limit to the thing. It cannot go on to infinity"
"Es muss ein Ende geben, es kann nicht bis ins Unendliche
weitergehen"
Samuel Hahnemann to Dr Schreter, Sept 13th 1829. Writing about
dilutions of Homeopathic Dilutions.
If the water acquires a memory, as claimed by modern homeopaths, of
the substance during dilutions, what happens to the memory when the
water evaporates away?

It transforms to pure vapor, leaving nothing but a memory behind.

how can you tell the memory is left behind? Is there a methodology of
detecting this memory?

Post by BruceS
Seriously, what happens when the user's body dilutes the substance
further, and then excretes or secretes the result into the sewage or
septic system? Do the purification processes designed to dilute and
purify waste just make it that much stronger? Maybe it doesn't work
without the magic words and tapping against magic leather, so we're safe.

People do not realize the quasi-religious aspects Hahnemann used to
sell his concept. his method was the thumping of the diluted material
in a vial on a leather bound Bible. Hahnemann also admonished people
not to investigate the causes of the disease, because there were
beyond the realm of human knowledge.

Since a minute quantity of plutonium has made it way to the sea, and
the sea is constantly moving, by using the concept which homeopathy
is dependant upon, everyone in the world should be dead by now and
the planet should be a radioactive wasteland. But it isn't.

The basis of homeopathy is not shown to be true in the real world.
Cars need more gas to produce energy to go fast. People need to eat
less food to get thinner, not more food. People that become
dehydrated need to be cooled off not heated. Less power to a light
blub makes it dimmer not brighter.

There is no nature example of a situation where something smaller is
more powerful.

[carole]

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

As I said, homeopathy does work - at least at the 6x dilution which is
the only one I take.

If you get a bottle of homeopathic 6x silica tablets and take them,
you will find that you don't need to use underarm deodorant because
the silica cellsalt has the abiity to stop underarm odour whether its
taken in mg form or homeopathic form.
This shows four things -

1. That silica works to stop underarm odour
2. That this information is kept from the public in order to promote
commercial interests in the selling of deodorants which is big
business judging by the amount of product on grocery shelves,
3. That this information has not been made part of mainstream science
4. That silica works in homeopathic form.

Post by BruceS
Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Anybody can take a whole bottle of homeopathic poison with no effect.
It only has an effect if it is the correct remedy for the condition,
otherwise nothing.

Post by BruceS
That's a big point with science. Scientists don't deny something happens
just because they don't understand *why* it happens. Instead, they
attempt to repeat it in controlled conditions, to find out what factors
are involved. Once a model is found to explain the action, a scientist
will come up with tests for that model, attempting to break it.

In an ideal world that would be true.
However, what we're dealing with is vested interests who work to
suppress information that would effect bottom lines apart from
anything else.

http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/BogusScience.html
"How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created
The pharmaceutical industry, with their total control over the
National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI),
Food and Drug Administration (FDA), etc. have also funded many, many
millions of dollars of bogus scientific studies. In fact, their budget
is in the billions of dollars every year!! Couple this with their
control of the media and you have the situation we are in today.
It is the Prime Directive of medical research to do two things: First,
make it appear there is "scientific evidence" for orthodox cancer
treatments, orthodox heart disease prevention treatments, etc., and
Second, make it appear there is "no scientific evidence" for
alternative cancer treatments, alternative heart disease prevention
treatments, and so on."

The above article is an extract only. You should read the whole
article.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Lu]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

As I said, homeopathy does work - at least at the 6x dilution which is
the only one I take.
If you get a bottle of homeopathic 6x silica tablets and take them,
you will find that you don't need to use underarm deodorant because
the silica cellsalt has the abiity to stop underarm odour whether its
taken in mg form or homeopathic form.
This shows four things -
1. That silica works to stop underarm odour
2. That this information is kept from the public in order to promote
commercial interests in the selling of deodorants which is big
business judging by the amount of product on grocery shelves,
3. That this information has not been made part of mainstream science
4. That silica works in homeopathic form.

I guess my underarm odor is cured too. All I take is daily showers. Less
than 2 bobs worth of soap with water.

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Anybody can take a whole bottle of homeopathic poison with no effect.
It only has an effect if it is the correct remedy for the condition,
otherwise nothing.

Is there any skull and crossbones pictured on any of that homeopathic poison?

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
That's a big point with science. Scientists don't deny something happens
just because they don't understand *why* it happens. Instead, they
attempt to repeat it in controlled conditions, to find out what factors
are involved. Once a model is found to explain the action, a scientist
will come up with tests for that model, attempting to break it.

In an ideal world that would be true.
However, what we're dealing with is vested interests who work to
suppress information that would effect bottom lines apart from
anything else.

Some evidence of this claim, please. Especially some evidence that the final
testing for any drug, before it comes to market, are done by vested
interests, like your article (below)?

Post by carole
http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/BogusScience.html
"How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created
The pharmaceutical industry, with their total control over the
National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI),
Food and Drug Administration (FDA), etc. have also funded many, many
millions of dollars of bogus scientific studies.

REAL evidence of bogus scientific studies, please.

Post by carole
In fact, their budget
is in the billions of dollars every year!! Couple this with their
control of the media and you have the situation we are in today.
It is the Prime Directive of medical research to do two things: First,
make it appear there is "scientific evidence" for orthodox cancer
treatments, orthodox heart disease prevention treatments, etc., and
Second, make it appear there is "no scientific evidence" for
alternative cancer treatments, alternative heart disease prevention
treatments, and so on."
The above article is an extract only. You should read the whole
article.

No thanks , the subtitle of the article, "Information About The Amazing
Treatments of Mother Nature !!" tells me that they are selling something.
That is all I need to know.

Post by carole
--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

--
Lu

"Ignorance more frequently begets�confidence than does knowledge; it is those
who know little, and not those who�know much, who so positively assert that
this or that problem will never be solved by science" --Charles Darwin.

[Bob Officer]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:05:48 -0500, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

As I said, homeopathy does work - at least at the 6x dilution which is
the only one I take.
If you get a bottle of homeopathic 6x silica tablets and take them,
you will find that you don't need to use underarm deodorant because
the silica cellsalt has the abiity to stop underarm odour whether its
taken in mg form or homeopathic form.
This shows four things -
1. That silica works to stop underarm odour
2. That this information is kept from the public in order to promote
commercial interests in the selling of deodorants which is big
business judging by the amount of product on grocery shelves,
3. That this information has not been made part of mainstream science
4. That silica works in homeopathic form.

I guess my underarm odor is cured too. All I take is daily showers. Less
than 2 bobs worth of soap with water.

And every glass of water you drink is fully saturated with all the
silica it can hold.

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Anybody can take a whole bottle of homeopathic poison with no effect.
It only has an effect if it is the correct remedy for the condition,
otherwise nothing.

Is there any skull and crossbones pictured on any of that homeopathic poison?

That's doubtful.

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
That's a big point with science. Scientists don't deny something happens
just because they don't understand *why* it happens. Instead, they
attempt to repeat it in controlled conditions, to find out what factors
are involved. Once a model is found to explain the action, a scientist
will come up with tests for that model, attempting to break it.

In an ideal world that would be true.
However, what we're dealing with is vested interests who work to
suppress information that would effect bottom lines apart from
anything else.

Some evidence of this claim, please. Especially some evidence that the final
testing for any drug, before it comes to market, are done by vested
interests, like your article (below)?

She hasn't got any evidence.

Post by Lu

Post by carole
http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/BogusScience.html
"How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created
The pharmaceutical industry, with their total control over the
National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI),
Food and Drug Administration (FDA), etc. have also funded many, many
millions of dollars of bogus scientific studies.

REAL evidence of bogus scientific studies, please.

Well that as close as real as Carole can find.

Post by Lu

Post by carole
In fact, their budget
is in the billions of dollars every year!! Couple this with their
control of the media and you have the situation we are in today.
It is the Prime Directive of medical research to do two things: First,
make it appear there is "scientific evidence" for orthodox cancer
treatments, orthodox heart disease prevention treatments, etc., and
Second, make it appear there is "no scientific evidence" for
alternative cancer treatments, alternative heart disease prevention
treatments, and so on."
The above article is an extract only. You should read the whole
article.

No thanks , the subtitle of the article, "Information About The Amazing
Treatments of Mother Nature !!" tells me that they are selling something.
That is all I need to know.

[Lu]

Post by Bob Officer
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:05:48 -0500, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

As I said, homeopathy does work - at least at the 6x dilution which is
the only one I take.
If you get a bottle of homeopathic 6x silica tablets and take them,
you will find that you don't need to use underarm deodorant because
the silica cellsalt has the abiity to stop underarm odour whether its
taken in mg form or homeopathic form.
This shows four things -
1. That silica works to stop underarm odour
2. That this information is kept from the public in order to promote
commercial interests in the selling of deodorants which is big
business judging by the amount of product on grocery shelves,
3. That this information has not been made part of mainstream science
4. That silica works in homeopathic form.

I guess my underarm odor is cured too. All I take is daily showers. Less
than 2 bobs worth of soap with water.

And every glass of water you drink is fully saturated with all the
silica it can hold.

All those nice fresh vegetables and just about everything I eat. That water
out of that shower head is fully saturated with silica, too. Get it both
ways.

Post by Bob Officer

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Anybody can take a whole bottle of homeopathic poison with no effect.
It only has an effect if it is the correct remedy for the condition,
otherwise nothing.

Is there any skull and crossbones pictured on any of that homeopathic poison?

That's doubtful.

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
That's a big point with science. Scientists don't deny something happens
just because they don't understand *why* it happens. Instead, they
attempt to repeat it in controlled conditions, to find out what factors
are involved. Once a model is found to explain the action, a scientist
will come up with tests for that model, attempting to break it.

In an ideal world that would be true.
However, what we're dealing with is vested interests who work to
suppress information that would effect bottom lines apart from
anything else.

Some evidence of this claim, please. Especially some evidence that the final
testing for any drug, before it comes to market, are done by vested
interests, like your article (below)?

She hasn't got any evidence.

I know. I been asking her for that since I stopped lurking.

Post by Bob Officer

Post by Lu

Post by carole
http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/BogusScience.html
"How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created
The pharmaceutical industry, with their total control over the
National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI),
Food and Drug Administration (FDA), etc. have also funded many, many
millions of dollars of bogus scientific studies.

REAL evidence of bogus scientific studies, please.

Well that as close as real as Carole can find.

Does she know what "real" means? Don't think so.

Post by Bob Officer

Post by Lu

Post by carole
In fact, their budget
is in the billions of dollars every year!! Couple this with their
control of the media and you have the situation we are in today.
It is the Prime Directive of medical research to do two things: First,
make it appear there is "scientific evidence" for orthodox cancer
treatments, orthodox heart disease prevention treatments, etc., and
Second, make it appear there is "no scientific evidence" for
alternative cancer treatments, alternative heart disease prevention
treatments, and so on."
The above article is an extract only. You should read the whole
article.

No thanks , the subtitle of the article, "Information About The Amazing
Treatments of Mother Nature !!" tells me that they are selling something.
That is all I need to know.

--
Lu

Big pharma costs.
Mainstream medicine cures.
Alternative treatment brainwashes.
- Bruce S

[carole]

Post by Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:05:48 -0500, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

As I said, homeopathy does work - at least at the 6x dilution which is
the only one I take.
If you get a bottle of homeopathic 6x silica tablets and take them,
you will find that you don't need to use underarm deodorant because
the silica cellsalt has the abiity to stop underarm odour whether its
taken in mg form or homeopathic form.
This shows four things -
1. That silica works to stop underarm odour
2. That this information is kept from the public in order to promote
commercial interests in the selling of deodorants which is big
business judging by the amount of product on grocery shelves,
3. That this information has not been made part of mainstream science
4. That silica works in homeopathic form.

I guess my underarm odor is cured too. All I take is daily showers. Less
than 2 bobs worth of soap with water.

And every glass of water you drink is fully saturated with all the
silica it can hold.

No, that's not true. If it was true people wouldn't need to use
underarm deodorant which stops underarm odour and wetness.

Post by Lu
All those nice fresh vegetables and just about everything I eat. That water
out of that shower head is fully saturated with silica, too. Get it both
ways.

Water either has silica in the wrong form or not enough.
I don't think our diets contain enough minerals. I can eat 3 serves of
calcium food a day and still don't get enough, still have to take
calcium supplements of about 2 grams a day.

Post by Lu

Post by Bob Officer

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of homeopathic
poison?

Anybody can take a whole bottle of homeopathic poison with no effect.
It only has an effect if it is the correct remedy for the condition,
otherwise nothing.

Is there any skull and crossbones pictured on any of that homeopathic poison?

That's doubtful.

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
That's a big point with science. Scientists don't deny something happens
just because they don't understand *why* it happens. Instead, they
attempt to repeat it in controlled conditions, to find out what factors
are involved. Once a model is found to explain the action, a scientist
will come up with tests for that model, attempting to break it.

In an ideal world that would be true.
However, what we're dealing with is vested interests who work to
suppress information that would effect bottom lines apart from
anything else.

Some evidence of this claim, please. Especially some evidence that the final
testing for any drug, before it comes to market, are done by vested
interests, like your article (below)?

She hasn't got any evidence.

I know. I been asking her for that since I stopped lurking.

Its just joining the dots.
If you read around and consider everything without bias, you come to
conclusions that the system is rigged.

You don't need evidence, you need to look at who gets away with what.
Why certain business criminals get off while the little people get
penalised.

Post by Lu

Post by Bob Officer

Post by Lu

Post by carole
http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/BogusScience.html
"How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created
The pharmaceutical industry, with their total control over the
National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI),
Food and Drug Administration (FDA), etc. have also funded many, many
millions of dollars of bogus scientific studies.

REAL evidence of bogus scientific studies, please.

In the real world the people should be running the show, not
corporations which is currently what is happening.
Corporations + government = fascism.

We are living in a more or less fascist society.

"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power."
-- Benito Mussolini (speaking of corporate fascism)

Post by Lu

Post by Bob Officer
Well that as close as real as Carole can find.

Does she know what "real" means? Don't think so.

How Bogus Scientific Studies Are Created
http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/BogusScience.html 

You left off the link to a very good article.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[carole]

Post by Lu

Post by carole

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

As I said, homeopathy does work - at least at the 6x dilution which is
the only one I take.
If you get a bottle of homeopathic 6x silica tablets and take them,
you will find that you don't need to use underarm deodorant because
the silica cellsalt has the abiity to stop underarm odour whether its
taken in mg form or homeopathic form.
This shows four things -
1. That silica works to stop underarm odour
2. That this information is kept from the public in order to promote
commercial interests in the selling of deodorants which is big
business judging by the amount of product on grocery shelves,
3. That this information has not been made part of mainstream science
4. That silica works in homeopathic form.

I guess my underarm odor is cured too. All I take is daily showers. Less
than 2 bobs worth of soap with water.

And ...?

What are all the different deodorants on the supermarket shelves
generally used for? Are they just there for decoration?

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com



--


--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Fiscal Cliff]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by Peter Bowditch

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do

If homeopathy worked, looking for the science would become a secondary
issue. Quacks love to point to aspirin as an example of something that
people knew worked to relieve pain but nobody knew how it worked (they
do now). Ever had a general anesthetic, Carole? Did it work to prevent
you feeling pain? Does anyone know why it worked? Ever had penicillin,
Carole? After Fleming noticed that it worked, people like Florey did
the science to find out why.

As I said, homeopathy does work

No it does not. Homeopathy is no more effective than placebo or sugar pill.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2903029.stm

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2897%2902293-9/fulltext#article_upsell

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16125589

Post by carole
- at least at the 6x dilution which is the only one I take.

Your self-serving statement on whether a given remedy works cannot be
trusted nor relied upon. You have shown time and time again you do not
know what you are talking about.

Post by carole
If you get a bottle of homeopathic 6x silica tablets and take them,
you will find that you don't need to use underarm deodorant because
the silica cellsalt has the abiity to stop underarm odour whether
its taken in mg form or homeopathic form.

Bullshit.

Silica has nothing to do with underam odor.

Post by carole
This shows four things -
1. That silica works to stop underarm odour 2. That this information
is kept from the public in order to promote commercial interests in
the selling of deodorants which is big business judging by the amount
of product on grocery shelves, 3. That this information has not been
made part of mainstream science 4. That silica works in homeopathic
form.

Bullshit.

The cause of underarm odor is bacteria on the skin and silica has no
effect whatsoever on controlling bacteria. Simple but frequent washing
is what controls underarm odor.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/body-odor.htm

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
Hey, weren't you one of those who took a whole bottle of
homeopathic poison?

Anybody can take a whole bottle of homeopathic poison with no
effect. It only has an effect if it is the correct remedy for the
condition, otherwise nothing.

Homeopathic remedies are no better than placebo.

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
That's a big point with science. Scientists don't deny something
happens just because they don't understand *why* it happens.
Instead, they attempt to repeat it in controlled conditions, to
find out what factors are involved. Once a model is found to
explain the action, a scientist will come up with tests for that
model, attempting to break it.

In an ideal world that would be true. However, what we're dealing
with is vested interests who work to suppress information that would
effect bottom lines apart from anything else.

No one suppresses anything.

<snip the rest of Carole's usual nonsense>

Carole <-- an idiot, and her own words have made her so.

[Fiscal Cliff]

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do and prefer to rubbish it along with any
other alternative remedy that would explode their little "science"
myths.

Homeopathic remedies have been shown time and time again to be no more
effective than placebo.

Post by carole
I can proove that homeopathy works

No you can't.

<snip>

Post by carole
The cellsalt silica taken in homeopathic form eliminates underarm
odour and wetness.

No it does not.

<snip>

Post by carole
Now if you still want to argue that homeopathy is useless

Nothing to argue about. Fact is homeopathy is useless.

<snip>

Post by carole
I am beating my head against a brick wall.

That's your choice.

Post by carole
I have so far killfiled any/all allopaths for similar things as I am
tired of arguments going around in circles.

Your killfile leaks intentionally.

Besides, you're lucky everyone else hasn't killfiled you long ago.

Carole <--- the Lunatic from Down Under (LfDU)

[John H. Gohde]

Post by Fiscal Cliff

Post by carole
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do and prefer to rubbish it along with any
other alternative remedy that would explode their little "science"
myths.

Homeopathic remedies have been shown time and time again to be no more
effective than placebo.

Post by carole
I can proove that homeopathy works

No you can't.
<snip>

Post by carole
The cellsalt silica taken in homeopathic form eliminates underarm
odour and wetness.

No it does not.
<snip>

Post by carole
Now if you still want to argue that homeopathy is useless

Nothing to argue about. Fact is homeopathy is useless.
<snip>

Post by carole
I am beating my head against a brick wall.

That's your choice.

Post by carole
I have so far killfiled any/all allopaths for similar things as I am
tired of arguments going around in circles.

Your killfile leaks intentionally.
Besides, you're lucky everyone else hasn't killfiled you long ago.
Carole <--- the Lunatic from Down Under (LfDU)

Why don't YOU take a long walk off of that Fiscal Cliff, Bozo?

[BruceS]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.
There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.

We call those things "magic", and rational people just walk carefully past
the True Believers, trying not to make eye contact. Homeopathic products
need to be clearly marked as "Based On Magical Thinking" to avoid
defrauding the uninformed.

We?
Who is we ...you mean the pharmaceutical cartel that wants to
eliminate any / all competition?
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do and prefer to rubbish it along with any
other alternative remedy that would explode their little "science"
myths.
I can proove that homeopathy works although I've mentioned it many
times before but none of the allopathic true believers are really
serious about knowing -- because if homeopathy works then it will rock
their little world.
It is a simple test that I put to believers in "science-based
medicine" which is really crap.
The cellsalt silica taken in homeopathic form eliminates underarm
odour and wetness. Now if homeopathy is useless then it wouldn't work.
I haven't used underarm deodorant for years - just homeopathic 6x
silica.
Now if you still want to argue that homeopathy is useless then there's
nothing left to discuss and I am beating my head against a brick wall.
I have so far killfiled any/all allopaths for similar things as I am
tired of arguments going around in circles.

"We" refers to rational people, who don't accept some fairy tale just
because a bunch of loonies keep repeating it.

If you're at all interested in the truth, check out the videos of people
taking massive "overdoses" of various homeopathic products, with no
effect. Take hundreds of times the dosage for a sleep aid, and don't even
get drowsy. Take a whole bottle of homeopathic "poison" and feel just
fine. Even if you don't understand logic and science enough to understand
why the "repeated dilution makes it stronger" argument is ludicrous, then
seeing practical demonstrations should help. For that matter, you could
take your "cellsalt silica" that you get at 6x, and do two or three "C"
dilutions. You'll have ten thousand or a million times as much product
(which should save you considerable money), plus it will be ever so much
stronger.

[carole]

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.
There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.

We call those things "magic", and rational people just walk carefully past
the True Believers, trying not to make eye contact. Homeopathic products
need to be clearly marked as "Based On Magical Thinking" to avoid
defrauding the uninformed.

We?
Who is we ...you mean the pharmaceutical cartel that wants to
eliminate any / all competition?
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do and prefer to rubbish it along with any
other alternative remedy that would explode their little "science"
myths.
I can proove that homeopathy works although I've mentioned it many
times before but none of the allopathic true believers are really
serious about knowing -- because if homeopathy works then it will rock
their little world.
It is a simple test that I put to believers in "science-based
medicine" which is really crap.
The cellsalt silica taken in homeopathic form eliminates underarm
odour and wetness. Now if homeopathy is useless then it wouldn't work.
I haven't used underarm deodorant for years - just homeopathic 6x
silica.
Now if you still want to argue that homeopathy is useless then there's
nothing left to discuss and I am beating my head against a brick wall.
I have so far killfiled any/all allopaths for similar things as I am
tired of arguments going around in circles.

"We" refers to rational people, who don't accept some fairy tale just
because a bunch of loonies keep repeating it.
If you're at all interested in the truth, check out the videos of people
taking massive "overdoses" of various homeopathic products, with no
effect. Take hundreds of times the dosage for a sleep aid, and don't even
get drowsy. Take a whole bottle of homeopathic "poison" and feel just
fine.

If the homeopathic remedy doesn't work then its the wrong remedy.

Demonstrating that people can take the wrong remedy and it has no
effect does not prove that homeopathy doesn't work when it is the
correct remedy.

Post by BruceS
Even if you don't understand logic and science enough to understand
why the "repeated dilution makes it stronger" argument is ludicrous, then
seeing practical demonstrations should help. For that matter, you could
take your "cellsalt silica" that you get at 6x, and do two or three "C"
dilutions. You'll have ten thousand or a million times as much product
(which should save you considerable money), plus it will be ever so much
stronger.

I only take 6x remedies - which is all that is available from the
health shop.

--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

[BruceS]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.
There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.

We call those things "magic", and rational people just walk carefully past
the True Believers, trying not to make eye contact. Homeopathic products
need to be clearly marked as "Based On Magical Thinking" to avoid
defrauding the uninformed.

We?
Who is we ...you mean the pharmaceutical cartel that wants to
eliminate any / all competition?
If homeopathy worked they would have to try and explain the science
which they don't want to do and prefer to rubbish it along with any
other alternative remedy that would explode their little "science"
myths.
I can proove that homeopathy works although I've mentioned it many
times before but none of the allopathic true believers are really
serious about knowing -- because if homeopathy works then it will rock
their little world.
It is a simple test that I put to believers in "science-based
medicine" which is really crap.
The cellsalt silica taken in homeopathic form eliminates underarm
odour and wetness. Now if homeopathy is useless then it wouldn't work.
I haven't used underarm deodorant for years - just homeopathic 6x
silica.
Now if you still want to argue that homeopathy is useless then there's
nothing left to discuss and I am beating my head against a brick wall.
I have so far killfiled any/all allopaths for similar things as I am
tired of arguments going around in circles.

"We" refers to rational people, who don't accept some fairy tale just
because a bunch of loonies keep repeating it.
If you're at all interested in the truth, check out the videos of people
taking massive "overdoses" of various homeopathic products, with no
effect. Take hundreds of times the dosage for a sleep aid, and don't even
get drowsy. Take a whole bottle of homeopathic "poison" and feel just
fine.

If the homeopathic remedy doesn't work then its the wrong remedy.

If they're taking a bottle full of homeopathic poison (that is, something
not intended to be a remedy but simply a poison) and have no effect,
doesn't that tell you the methodology is worthless? If they take a
bottle of what's supposed to be sleep aid, but don't even get drowsy,
doesn't that tell you that the "sleep aid" has no effect and is
worthless? These aren't the "wrong remedies", they're products that are
supposed to have a specific effect and instead have none.

Post by carole
Demonstrating that people can take the wrong remedy and it has no effect
does not prove that homeopathy doesn't work when it is the correct
remedy.

Post by BruceS
Even if you don't understand logic and science enough to understand why
the "repeated dilution makes it stronger" argument is ludicrous, then
seeing practical demonstrations should help. For that matter, you could
take your "cellsalt silica" that you get at 6x, and do two or three "C"
dilutions. You'll have ten thousand or a million times as much product
(which should save you considerable money), plus it will be ever so much
stronger.

I only take 6x remedies - which is all that is available from the health
shop.

So why not do yourself a favor, and run those 6X products through some
additional dilutions? They get stronger and stronger the more you dilute
them, right? So dilute the 6X by a thousand times, then do the same with
the result. You'll have incredibly strong product as a result, and will
never need to buy any again. Just be careful to use a very, very small
amount of the final product.

[carole]

Post by BruceS

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
"We" refers to rational people, who don't accept some fairy tale just
because a bunch of loonies keep repeating it.
If you're at all interested in the truth, check out the videos of people
taking massive "overdoses" of various homeopathic products, with no
effect. Take hundreds of times the dosage for a sleep aid, and don't even
get drowsy. Take a whole bottle of homeopathic "poison" and feel just
fine.

If the homeopathic remedy doesn't work then its the wrong remedy.

If they're taking a bottle full of homeopathic poison (that is, something
not intended to be a remedy but simply a poison) and have no effect,
doesn't that tell you the methodology is worthless? If they take a
bottle of what's supposed to be sleep aid, but don't even get drowsy,
doesn't that tell you that the "sleep aid" has no effect and is
worthless? These aren't the "wrong remedies", they're products that are
supposed to have a specific effect and instead have none.

With homeopathy, the practitioner has to take a history of the patient
and prescribe the remedy that best suits the condition. If one remedy
doesn't work, then the practitioner has to go back to the drawing
board the take another look.

Post by BruceS

Post by carole
Demonstrating that people can take the wrong remedy and it has no effect
does not prove that homeopathy doesn't work when it is the correct
remedy.

Post by BruceS
Even if you don't understand logic and science enough to understand why
the "repeated dilution makes it stronger" argument is ludicrous, then
seeing practical demonstrations should help. For that matter, you could
take your "cellsalt silica" that you get at 6x, and do two or three "C"
dilutions. You'll have ten thousand or a million times as much product
(which should save you considerable money), plus it will be ever so much
stronger.

I only take 6x remedies - which is all that is available from the health
shop.

So why not do yourself a favor, and run those 6X products through some
additional dilutions? They get stronger and stronger the more you dilute
them, right? So dilute the 6X by a thousand times, then do the same with
the result. You'll have incredibly strong product as a result, and will
never need to buy any again. Just be careful to use a very, very small
amount of the final product.

Yes, I realise you're probably being facetious, but its not just a
matter of diluting the remedy, it also has to be shaken a certain way
in between dilutions, the theory being that the etheric portion is
separated from the physical and it is the etheric that does the
healing.

I don't know if it is possible to dilute remedies that have been
sprayed onto lactose tablets. The dilution is done before that stage.

If I knew a homeopath who could make up stronger tablets it would
probably be good, but I'd end up probably paying more for their
services than with the 6x. So not a lot of advantage.
I only take homeopathic cellsalts a few cellsalts and they work
despite all the jokes.

--
carole
www.conspiracee.com

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:16:17 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<with snippage>

Post by Bob Officer
Then the fact that it is homeopathic dilution means there is nothing
really there if the remedy is 12C or more.

Wait...12C or more? IIRC, that would mean 12 consecutive dilutions of 1
part "active" ingredient in 100 parts water. Even 7C would mean you'd
have about a microgram of active ingredient in a twenty-five thousand
gallon swimming pool filled with the homeopathic remedy. If I'm doing the
math right, then with a 3C homeopathic dilution of LSD, you'd need to
drink about half a gallon to get a 50 mic dose, and it would take
upwards of 20 gallons of the stuff before you'd start believing in
homeopathy. ISTM you're being extremely generous, letting them get to 12C
before writing it off.

Yeah yeah -- heard it all before.

But failed to understand it.

Post by carole
There are things that modern science can't explain -- let's just leave
it there.

It can explain many thing, it can not explain your belief in magic.

[Mark Thorson]

Post by Bob Officer
ferr phos in a homeopathic remedy isn't iron phosphate, Carole it is
an amalgam of three chemicals mixed together, Ferric sulfate, Sodium
acetate, and Sodium phosphate. Just because a mixture of chemicals
containing compounds with Iron and Phosphorus doesn't make it iron
phosphate.

Amalgam? Did you hear that, Jan?

[carole]

Post by Mark Thorson

Post by Bob Officer
ferr phos in a homeopathic remedy isn't iron phosphate, Carole it is
an amalgam of three chemicals mixed together, Ferric sulfate, Sodium
acetate, and Sodium phosphate. Just because a mixture of chemicals
containing compounds with Iron and Phosphorus doesn't make it iron
phosphate.

I'm just going by what is mentioned in the Biochemic Handbook about
cellsalts bob.

And however it is made or whatever it is composed - it is known as
ferr phos (iron phosphate). For all intents and purposes it does what
it is supposed to do.

I guess you will tell me that calcium phosphate is made up of arsenic
sulphate and cessium chloride next? Anything bob, to create confusion
and disrupt thought processes. I don't know why you bother bob, since
you claim that homeopathic calcium is a micro mineral.

See The Biochemic Handbook online at
Online Biochemic Handbook at
http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8 
page 11

1. CALC. FLUOR. 7. KALI SULPH.
(Calcium Fluoride) (Potassium Sulphate)
2. CALC. PHOS. 8. MAG. PHOS.
(Calcium Phosphate) (Magnesium Phosphate)
3. CALC. SULPH. 9. NAT. MUR.
(Calcium Sulphate) (Sodium Chloride)
4. FERR. PHOS. 10. NAT. PHOS.
(Iron Phosphate) (Sodium Phosphate)
5 KALI MUR. 11. NAT. SULPH.
(Potassium Chloride) (Sodium Sulphate)
6. KALI PHOS. 12. SILICA
(Potassium Phosphate) (Silica Oxide)

Toodles bob.

--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

Post by Mark Thorson
Amalgam? Did you hear that, Jan?

funny.

[Bob Officer]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:04:23 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole

Post by Bob Officer
ferr phos in a homeopathic remedy isn't iron phosphate, Carole it is
an amalgam of three chemicals mixed together, Ferric sulfate, Sodium
acetate, and Sodium phosphate. Just because a mixture of chemicals
containing compounds with Iron and Phosphorus doesn't make it iron
phosphate.

I'm just going by what is mentioned in the Biochemic Handbook about
cellsalts bob.
And however it is made or whatever it is composed - it is known as
ferr phos (iron phosphate). For all intents and purposes it does what
it is supposed to do.
I guess you will tell me that calcium phosphate is made up of arsenic
sulphate and cessium chloride next? Anything bob, to create confusion
and disrupt thought processes. I don't know why you bother bob, since
you claim that homeopathic calcium is a micro mineral.

http://www.herbs2000.com/homeopathy/ferrum.htm

<cite>
Ferrum phos. is prepared by blending three solutions - iron sulfate,
sodium acetate and phosphorus. The resultant product iron phosphate
is pulverized using large amounts of sugar lactose (also known as
milk sugar) to make it non-toxic.
</cite>

<cite>
The homeopathic remedy Ferrum phosphoricum (Ferrum phos. or iron
phosphate) is prepared by means of a chemical process and using iron
sulfate, sodium acetate and sodium phosphate.
</cite>

It seems isn't Iron Phosphate.


<snip of Carole's prattle>

[Bob Officer]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:25:44 -0800, in misc.health.alternative, Mark

Post by Mark Thorson

Post by Bob Officer
ferr phos in a homeopathic remedy isn't iron phosphate, Carole it is
an amalgam of three chemicals mixed together, Ferric sulfate, Sodium
acetate, and Sodium phosphate. Just because a mixture of chemicals
containing compounds with Iron and Phosphorus doesn't make it iron
phosphate.

Amalgam? Did you hear that, Jan?

You are evil... and I like that.

[Happy Oyster]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<usual spam>

I've been taking cellsalts now for over 25 years

No wonder that there is a brain damage.

[ironjustice]

Myeloperoxidase and free iron levels: potential biomarkers for early
detection and prognosis of ovarian cancer.
Cancer Biomark. 2011-2012;10(6):267-75.
Fletcher NM, Jiang Z, Ali-Fehmi R, Levin NK, Belotte J, Tainsky MA,
Diamond MP, Abu-Soud HM, Saed GM.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, The C.S. Mott Center for
Human Growth and Development, Wayne State University School of
Medicine, Detroit, MI 48201, USA.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: The study sought to identify whether a relationship exists
between serum myeloperoxidase (MPO) and free iron with stages of
ovarian cancer.


METHODS: Serum and tissue samples were collected from women with
stages I through IV ovarian cancer, benign gynecologic conditions,
inflammation, and healthy controls. Myeloperoxidase ELISA and VITROS
Fe Slide assays were used to measure serum and tissue MPO and free
iron levels, respectively. Data were analyzed with a one-way ANOVA
with post-hoc comparisons (p < 0.05 considered significant).


RESULTS: There was a significant increase in the level of free iron
in
serum and tissues obtained from stages II-IV as compared to early-
stage (stage I) ovarian cancer. There was an overlap between early-
stage and inflammation serum MPO levels, however serum free iron
levels were significantly higher in early-stage. There was no
significant change in serum free iron levels between non-cancer
groups. In contrast, there was a significant increase in serum free
iron levels in early-stage as compared to non-cancer groups.


CONCLUSIONS: Collectively, these findings clearly indicate a role for
the combination of serum MPO and free iron as biomarkers for early
detection and prognosis of ovarian cancer.


PMID:22820082


doi: 10.3233/CBM-2012-0255.


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/634q5a


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[John H. Gohde]

Post by ironjustice
Myeloperoxidase and free iron levels: potential biomarkers for early

Bite me!

[carole]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:40:39 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by ironjustice
Myeloperoxidase and free iron levels: potential biomarkers for early

Bite me!

No, iron doesn't mean cancer.
There are a group of people who accumulate too much iron - do they all
get cancer? Of course not!

Regarding cellsalts, if they are out of balance, if there exists a
deficiency of any one cellsalt, it leads to what we call disease.

--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

[Fiscal Cliff]

Post by carole
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:40:39 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by ironjustice
Myeloperoxidase and free iron levels: potential biomarkers for early

Bite me!

No, iron doesn't mean cancer.
There are a group of people who accumulate too much iron - do they all
get cancer? Of course not!
Regarding cellsalts, if they are out of balance, if there exists a
deficiency of any one cellsalt, it leads to what we call disease.

Bullshit.
Carole is an idiot.
She is without qualification and lacks any understanding of disease.
Cell salts are snake oil.

[Happy Oyster]

Post by carole
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:40:39 -0800 (PST), "John H. Gohde"

Post by John H. Gohde

Post by ironjustice
Myeloperoxidase and free iron levels: potential biomarkers for early

Bite me!

No, iron doesn't mean cancer.
There are a group of people who accumulate too much iron - do they all
get cancer? Of course not!
Regarding cellsalts, if they are out of balance, if there exists a
deficiency of any one cellsalt, it leads to what we call disease.

Actually it is a brain disease of those who call...

[BruceS]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:53:26 -0800, ironjustice wrote:

<snip usual spam>

[carole]

Post by BruceS
<snip usual spam>

I've been noticing these posts from ironjustice for years now,
regarding too much iron.

I have recently been diagnosed as having arthritis in my ankle.
And the cellsalt primary remedy for arthritis, indeed anything ending
in -itis (meaning inflammatory), is iron (ferrum / iron phosphate).

Ironjustice needs to get over his obsession with iron - it is an
essential nutrient. People need iron.

--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

[Fiscal Cliff]

Post by carole

Post by BruceS
<snip usual spam>

I've been noticing these posts from ironjustice for years now,
regarding too much iron.
I have recently been diagnosed as having arthritis in my ankle.
And the cellsalt primary remedy for arthritis, indeed anything ending
in -itis (meaning inflammatory), is iron (ferrum / iron phosphate).
Ironjustice needs to get over his obsession with iron - it is an
essential nutrient. People need iron.

Carole is an idiot.

She is not qualified in nutrition.

[ironjustice]

Myeloperoxidase and free iron levels: potential biomarkers for early
detection and prognosis of ovarian cancer.
Cancer Biomark. 2011-2012;10(6):267-75.
Fletcher NM, Jiang Z, Ali-Fehmi R, Levin NK, Belotte J, Tainsky MA,
Diamond MP, Abu-Soud HM, Saed GM.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, The C.S. Mott Center for
Human Growth and Development, Wayne State University School of
Medicine, Detroit, MI 48201, USA.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: The study sought to identify whether a relationship exists
between serum myeloperoxidase (MPO) and free iron with stages of
ovarian cancer.


METHODS: Serum and tissue samples were collected from women with
stages I through IV ovarian cancer, benign gynecologic conditions,
inflammation, and healthy controls. Myeloperoxidase ELISA and VITROS
Fe Slide assays were used to measure serum and tissue MPO and free
iron levels, respectively. Data were analyzed with a one-way ANOVA
with post-hoc comparisons (p < 0.05 considered significant).


RESULTS: There was a significant increase in the level of free iron
in
serum and tissues obtained from stages II-IV as compared to early-
stage (stage I) ovarian cancer. There was an overlap between early-
stage and inflammation serum MPO levels, however serum free iron
levels were significantly higher in early-stage. There was no
significant change in serum free iron levels between non-cancer
groups. In contrast, there was a significant increase in serum free
iron levels in early-stage as compared to non-cancer groups.


CONCLUSIONS: Collectively, these findings clearly indicate a role for
the combination of serum MPO and free iron as biomarkers for early
detection and prognosis of ovarian cancer.


PMID:22820082


doi: 10.3233/CBM-2012-0255.


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/634q5a


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk